Agreed, nailed it! Jamie Parr CCIE #38633 (voice) Engineer - IT jamp...@cisco.com Phone: +44 20 8824 2641 Mobile: +44 7590622049
-----Original Message----- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Meade Sent: 30 May 2013 07:42 To: William Bell Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Could not say it any better Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 11:28 PM, "William Bell" <b...@ucguerrilla.com<mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote: Brian, That was a great write up. Thanks -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 30, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Brian Schear <brian.sch...@vitalsite.com<mailto:brian.sch...@vitalsite.com>> wrote: My 2 cents. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611 From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com> [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:boun...@onlinestudylist.com>] On Behalf OfWilliam Bell Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM To: somp...@gmail.com<mailto:somp...@gmail.com> Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this thread on the Cisco learning community (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0). The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they receive. Volume counts. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote: Bill, Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too. I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is used to EOL the certification? Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement of any CCIE track can be very real. Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether "CCIE Collaboration" will be retired and the new track is created as "CCIE Synergy" when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years? What makes us think this is a one off? What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created? (What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?) Will people still think it is worth the effort? The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment. It is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without proper communication upfront. By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this. Imaging a few year from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless. All the job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration. Do you think more and more former CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material is not that much anyway. The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing revenue do they? 2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two attempts) = $6,000,000.- Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point is they won't be losing money. --Somphol On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell <b...@ucguerrilla.com<mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote: Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com<http://ucguerrilla.com/> twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell <b...@ucguerrilla.com<mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com<http://ucguerrilla.com/> twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm <rrcr...@yahoo.com<mailto:rrcr...@yahoo.com>> wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade <leslie.me...@lvs1.com<mailto:leslie.me...@lvs1.com>> wrote: > The question is... what if anything can we do ? > Where would we start.. > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Mark Holloway <m...@markholloway.com<mailto:m...@markholloway.com>> > Date: > To: Bill Lake <whl...@gmail.com<mailto:whl...@gmail.com>> > Cc: OSL Group > <ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com> > >,Vik Malhi <vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>> > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially > announced > > > Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain > CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and > Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all > falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new > CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still > there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current > products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. > > In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over > again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. > > > > On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake > <whl...@gmail.com<mailto:whl...@gmail.com><mailto:whl...@gmail.com<mailto:whl...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > > Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire > your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If > this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. > > That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first > from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several > others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would > want official confirmation. > > https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_ > tracks > Retired CCIE tracks > > Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. > These are: > > * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX > switch products, which had been acquired as part of the > StrataCom<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom> acquisition) > * ISP Dial CCIE > * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) > * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different > design tests in format and subjects examined) > > People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided > they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title "CCIE", > rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. > > So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if > you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already > passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to > pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. > > Bill > > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george > <m.george00...@gmail.com<mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com><mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com<mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > Vik, > > A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is > still the toughest one & i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If > Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just > Voice. > > Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or > Voice/Video etc & introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring > thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call > Manager based on Windows & literally everything based on windows, Analog > endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether > be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers > at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. > > With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in > Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs > until Feb 2014. > > At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to "re-consider" this decision. > I hope folks concerned "collaborate" & put their suggestions forward on > Cisco Support Community & direct to Cisco Certification teams so they > "realize" what they are doing is NOT right. > > I will take some months for us to digest this news. > > Thanks > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi > <vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com><mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>>> > wrote: > As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about > this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of > Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it > Marketing bullying the content team? > > At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't > spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? > > Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid > check and balance. > > It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid > means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know > a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means > through which that is possible). > > When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two > things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward and > secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense > cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that > is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would > (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a wider > spectrum of vendors. > > Rant over. > > On May 28, 2013, at 20:14, Hesham Abdelkereem > <heshamcentr...@gmail.com<mailto:heshamcentr...@gmail.com><mailto:heshamcentr...@gmail.com<mailto:heshamcentr...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > > Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. > Ok let me tell you this. > People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice > that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab building , > travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So when people > achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be considered old > and grandfathered. > Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are planning to > abolish the whole syllabus. > Why they do that to us???? They already make money out of everything > especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. > > CCIE Voice achievers has to send cisco request for Migration without Lab test. > CCVP it was automatically migrated to CCNP Voice without any additional tests. > CCNA is migrated to CCNA R/S without any additional tests. > In case of Video part then I suggest whether they force CCIE Voice people to > make CCNA VIDEO or CCNP Video if they will release or they make just a > migration lab track that includes VIDEO stuff only for a cheaper fee > something like $500. > > Thats same for MICROSOFT they abolished MCSE to change it to MCITP people > usually just add 2 tracks to become full MCITP same when they migrate to new > MCSE (Microsoft Certified Solutions Experts) there is only an upgrade track > rather than taking the whole 5 tracks again. > > > Cisco obviously has to do something like that.It<http://that.It/>'s really > unfair retiring the whole cisco voice totally. > Guys to make the new Collaboration lab that would cost anyone over 50K to buy > telepresence , X9XX routers stuff , 9971 Video Phones , TV's and etc.. > Even the rack rentals would be 5 times the old voice track as the equipment > would be way more expensive. > > Seriously , We have to agree all of us from multiple different voice > study group to have a migration track to Collaboration please share > your thoughts guys [X] > > > On 28 May 2013 18:56, Mark Holloway > <m...@markholloway.com<mailto:m...@markholloway.com><mailto:m...@markholloway.com<mailto:m...@markholloway.com>>> > wrote: > Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to > Collaboration without any additional lab exams. > > On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi > <vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com><mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>>> > wrote: > >> For my initial reaction read here: >> >> http://bit.ly/12MNK5t >> >> >> Vik Malhi - CCIE #13890 >> Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. >> >> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext >> 420<tel:%2B1.810.326.1444%20ext%20420><tel:%2B1.810.326.1444%20ext%20 >> 420> >> Fax: +1.810.454.0130<tel:%2B1.810.454.0130><tel:%2B1.810.454.0130> >> Mailto: >> vma...@ipexpert.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com><mailto:vmalhi@ipexper >> t.com<mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >> please >> visitwww.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/><http://www.ipexpert.c >> om/> >> >> Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check >> outwww.PlatinumPlacement.com<http://www.PlatinumPlacement.com/><http: >> //www.platinumplacement.com/> > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, > please > visitwww.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/><http://www.ipexpert.co > m/> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check > outwww.PlatinumPlacement.com<http://www.PlatinumPlacement.com/><http:/ > /www.platinumplacement.com/> > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, > please > visitwww.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/><http://www.ipexpert.co > m/> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check > outwww.PlatinumPlacement.com<http://www.PlatinumPlacement.com/><http:/ > /www.platinumplacement.com/> > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, > please > visitwww.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/><http://www.ipexpert.co > m/> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check > outwww.PlatinumPlacement.com<http://www.PlatinumPlacement.com/><http:/ > /www.platinumplacement.com/> > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, > please > visitwww.ipexpert.com<http://www.ipexpert.com/><http://www.ipexpert.co > m<http://www.ipexpert.com/>> > > Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? 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