Larry what we have here is the utilitarian philosophy run amok. It is a reasonably valid if somewhat depressing system of thought. Remember, in thi s thinking charity has benefits to the giver as well. And by the way when I say valid I mean that it can explain most behavior.
On 1/9/06, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You're dead sure about those. > > To start, capitalism as we know it is a relatively recent phenomenon. > Its an outgrowth of the merchantile system of the 16th and 17th > centuries. Before that commerce was extremely regulated, either at the > local level - think merchant guilds or by royal charter. In Byzantium > and its successor states things were even more regulated - to even > open up a small shop in Constantinople, you needed direct permission > from the Emperor, or a senior flunkey. From what I understand Rome > used a similar system. You have to admit that it was fairly successful > - over 1500 years of people living and working under this system. > > As for greed being important, again I'm not sure about it. There's > been a fair amount of research on cooperative and altruistic behavior > both in humans and in animals, in both lab and field conditions. > While Darwin may have been correct, more recent work in sociobiology > suggests that cooperative behavior may be more important in the long > run in terms of passing on one's genes. > > Besides if greed was all that paramount, then we'd still be in a > Hobbsian situation where life is nasty brutish and short. > > larry > > On 1/9/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Gel wrote: > > > Gruss is saying that Capitalism = Greed. Capitalism is good and the > > > only viable economic model, and therefore Greed and all that goes with > > > it is good. > > > > > > Gruss also believes that any form of government beside a laissez Faire > > > Capitalist Democracy is wrong. > > > > > > > Rule #1 of these discussions that you let me tell you what I believe. > > Ask questions if you like, but don't tell me what I believe. > > > > Here's what I believe: > > > > 1.) Nobody on this planet is immune from greed. > > > > 2.) People can and do put other's needs before their own. We all do > > it quite often, but not often enough to trust that we will always do > > it if we came to power. > > > > 3.) Any socio-economic system that trusts its rulers/leaders/law > > makers to rule selflessly will fail. > > > > Here's what I remember from history class: > > > > * We tried the king deal. Guess what? Didn't work. Turns out that, > > sure, you can get a good king for awhile but then a bad one comes > > along and fecks everything up (for greed, power, and chicks. not in > > that order). > > > > * We tried the socialist thing. Doesn't work. see above. > > > > So, yeah, I think it's foolhardy to think that any system that doesn't > > assume it's rulers are greedy, selfish, and power hungry will succeed. > > It won't. There's thousands of years of experiments to back that up. > > > > And, yes, I think the most benevolent system ever invented is > > capitalism. It's egalitarian and provides freedom and rule of law by > > its very nature. But sure there's plenty of room for improvement. > > > > In a capitalist society, Gel is free to give up his PS2 and instead > > spend that money on the poor. He's free to give his club money and > > his car to the needy. He can ask the homeless to live with him. He > > can adopt abandoned children, volunteer at the hospital, or become a > > special needs teacher. > > > > But Gel doesn't do any of those things because he's greedy. Making > > sanctimonious speeches about me helps him to forget that doesn't > > practice what he preaches. > > > > For me, I'll earn the money to pay for the hospital via taxes. And > > I'll be honest about my greed. And I'll remember that when I get my > > custom exhaust installed next week I'll have paid for Brent Labree's > > meals. And the installer will use my money to pay for his kid's ski > > trip. And the ski resort will pay the salaries of the college > > students that work there who'll use the money to educate themselves. > > And the professors at the college will use the money to ... > > > > .... and soon we'll all be wealthy. But let's at least be honest about > > our greed. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:191288 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
