Loathe, best case, what do you see happening in Iraq? If all of Bush's plans, as I currently understand them, get put together, we are going to see a Shia government put in place in Iraq.
Guess where their loyalty will lie? Iran. So what we will have, by all of the deaths, and fancy words, will be to have killed Saddam, brought down his government, and turned it over to Iran. Yep, let's make sure we finish this one. What you are not taking into account is that _we_ don't run their government. We have already put a government in place. And they don't like us much. Unlike the wwII examples you used, we don't have the ability (assuming we follow the rules we have already established) to take over the country like we did in Europe and Japan. We are there on their sufference. We _cannot_ win in Iraq, unless we kill the elected officials and the military leadership in Iraq. Because the people now in charge in Iraq _are_ the ones stirring the sectarian violence. The ones in charge of the police and military are _also_ in charge of the Shia death squads. And those few in Iraq who are non-sectarian, and truly want an open, democratic, and secular Iraq are in the same position as the leaders of Lebanon, and in some respects, Pakistan and Afghanistan. They don't have the power, the guns, or the political will to fight it out with those they need to put down. So by default, the bad guys are going to win. In Iraq, the only question right now is: which bad guys? On 1/6/07, loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Damn good post. > > I would like to mention that in addition to the policy shift change that > there have been some major shake ups in the chain of command, including > the > new director of intelligence, who is a much better choice than Negroponte > (he'll do fine at state) was; and the change to the on the ground > commander > for Iraq. Gen. Petraious(sp?) is an incredible leader. Yeah, people > bitch > because he's aggressive and competitive, but what leader at that level > isn't? He's also an intellectual, smart as hell, with several degrees, > and > a great soldier. I met him once a long time ago. He has presence. Like > Gen. Hugh Shelton does. > > I see him as a future Chairman of the JCS. If there is a man that can > implement this, he can. > > I don't want to see more American dead soldiers than we have already, and > being one of the few here that has seen dead American soldiers, trust me > that's true. I also cannot sit back and allow this nation to pass on its > responsibility to the people of Iraq now. > > See Gruss, this is where you kind of disappointed me man. You jumped > ship. > You were of the "we broke it we bought it" mindset, now you're "all > retreat > and run". What happened? > > Let's say that none of the cease fire violations occurred, none of the UN > resolutions. > > Let's say all we had to go on was what we saw at the time from Saddam > (ejection of inspectors and so forth) and the flawed intelligence. > > Now I work with these people, saw some of what they saw at that time, not > to > mention I was still in the military with friends around the world, and we > talk. > > We thought he had shit; analysts thought he had shit. > > I would still have been for the invasion, and I was for the invasion then. > > Now, we come to today. We invaded, granted, on flawed intelligence (like > that hasn't happened before). How is our responsibility to these people > any > less? > > "Oh, we found out that the intelligence was bad, let's just pull out now. > Sure, Saddam is dead, but someone strong will emerge and kill the bad > guys. > He'll be another bad guy, but we just realized, this war stuff sucks!!" > > 3000 Americans have died in this country, Iraq. > > Not even a 10th of what was spent in Vietnam. > > Nothing compared to earlier wars. > > Yet far too many to cut and run. Far too many to now say it's their > problem. They didn't invite us. They fought against us remember? > > Look at what happened after World War 2. Remember the Marshall > plan? There > were large scale troop movements around and into Europe at all times, to > provide security and training. Rebuilding on a huge scale, far more money > was spent (when you account for inflation) than what has been spent in > Iraq. > Far many more lives expended, far more work done. > > Decades, of camps and Nazi hunting and reprogramming; put forth to rebuild > what was ravaged. Years of military government, military without even the > pretense of a puppet regime needed. > > Look at Japan. Look at Korea, where we still only have a cease fire, and > we > still have troops stationed. > > Silly people. Welcome to Empire America. > > This is what the slow slide left has wrought on our nation. > > I still however can't see just backing out. Too many of my friends, my > brothers, have given their lives for that soil, for this idea. > > I want to be able to believe that ideas, the intellect and morals and > ethics > still matter in this world. I have so little left at this point. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. 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