On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Sam wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 4:02 PM, denstar wrote: > >>> Read it. It was overturned. >> >> If I read it right only the data-mining stuff was dismissed. The rest >> stood. Right? > > Probably didn't, read it again and let me know.
It *looks* like only the data mining got thrown out. >> Do you believe in coincidence? Belafonte was "just" talking about >> Bobby K in that transcript I linked to about Powell. > > Belafonte? Dude if you don't stop quoting stupid actors I'm out. :) I thought he was a singer, but it's the message, not the messenger. Did B. Kennedy "change"? Get less socially conservative or some such? >> You're saying we don't need the records. We should just trust people >> in power not to abuse it. > > When did I say that? When you said they didn't need warrants because they did the same work with or without them, I think. >>>> So were the ones on MLK, right? >>> Unfortunately. >> Better to know, than to not know, right? > > Why would we not know? Because there would be no record, and no oversight. At least nothing official. >>> Most of that happened in the 40's while McCarthy didn't get involved until >>> 1950. >> >> You'll notice that I use McCarthy when talking about him specifically >> and McCarthyism when I talk about "The Crucible" and "Red Scares", >> etc.. >> But anyways, read this Leftest Propaganda: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist > > Sucks to be him. He read one speech he didn't even want to and he gets > branded with the decade old issue. His name is forever a tarnished. Heh. One speech, eh? Somehow I don't remember it like that, but I wasn't there, so who knows? "Just because the microphone in front of you amplifies your voice around the world; is no reason to think we have any more wisdom than we had when our voices could reach only from one end of the bar to the other." Ed Murrow >>> Nobody died. Nobody went to jail. All that happened in the 40's. >> Late 40s to late 50s for the most part, for that "scare". >> I'm sure no witches were harmed as a result of the hunts, either. >> Are you for real? I'm not quite sure when you're joking sometimes. ;) > > 19 died in Salem, zero died from McCarthyism. Over 100 million died > from communism. No joke. It wasn't communism, it was the sudden stop at the bottom. Even if you only count McCarthy, that's more than Zero. Look dude, people were afraid to speak their minds, and leaving the country. Wasn't there some actor who got a lifetime award, and nobody clapped, because the dude had turned in a lot of fellow actors and directors and whatnot as pinkos? You really don't think McCarhtyism is that bad? Because McCarthy himself did X? >>> We just finished two world wars, China flipped and the USSR and China >>> had the bomb thanks to spies. It was scary times and all real threats. >> It's always scary times, isn't it? With real threats? > > A lot of people died. Do you know how many children die *every day* from preventable causes? It's a lot. >> Some seem more eager than others to turn that to their advantage. > > You think maybe they did that to get us into WWII? Ah yes, the "axis of evil". Iraq was *sooooooo* like WWII. >> Sam, am I tripping, or have you been a supporter of the "if you are >> not doing anything wrong you've nothing to fear" meme? > > You're tripping. That's not even a real argument, never heard about > except from folks like you. It is a real argument, which *is* a trip. Maybe Rob said it? You support it by saying we don't need warrants and whatnot, you know. Or do you know? Why do we have warrants, in your opinion? >>>> So now it's like, way worse than ever. The back scratching, that is. >>>> Before it wasn't so bad, but now, now we should revolt? Because of >>>> health care, specifically? >>> Right back at ya. >> >> Yes, I can see how this bill is "worse" than the Patriot Act was for America. > > Patriot act was back scratching? Back at you would imply back > scratching now is nothing compared to what it was. You don't think any backs were scratched with the Patriot Act? Do you see "it" as being about money, per se, or Power? >> And you really believe that, don't you? That this health care bill is >> un-American? > > How many times to we need to go over this. Tell me who called you > un-patriotic and I'll handle it. I have some union friends. Hahaha! :) And I had you pegged as more of a scab. ;) Why just the health care stuff though? And why all the sudden excitement when Obama got in there, vs. prior? >>>> Not out of control spending in general, but health care? Because it's >>>> "socialist"? >>> Because it's corrupt. >> I thought we agreed that politicians are corrupt. The system is broken, >> etc.. > > Do you want to dance? Oh yeah! But why limit ourselves to health care? >> Health care, specifically this stuff that the ink literally isn't even >> dry on, is the big corruption we should be fighting? > > Hell yes! I thought you'd never snap out of i:) All the public > flaunting of back room deals, all hours of the night. The Louisiana > Purchase, the Corn Huskers kick back. So much illegal activity to buy > votes. It's about time you opened your eyes to it. This shit didn't > happen during the last admin. I still think worse shit happened during the last admin. This shit is pedestrian compared to that last shit. I think some people profit from making it seem that this shit is worse. Like, I was surprised to know that more people have been deported under Obama than the previous administration, but they're still calling him soft. And the main point (apparently) of the Tea Party is that we're paying more taxes now than ever before, right? Is that right? >> Look, I don't care if we die broke, so long as we die American, if >> that makes any sense. > > Perfectly. I'm pretty sure most of the discord is egged on by people pulling our puppet-like strings. >> Unless you're implying that politicians are rank, but Bush43 didn't >> smell. Which would make your head hurt. Unless you didn't consider >> Bush43 a politician! Is that it? > > Bush was bad because he's evil, Obama is bad because he's a politician > so he gets a pass? Didn't we agree on misguided vs. evil? Bush43 was more misguided. Better? >> Anyways, I used to hate apple, with a passion. > > Such a strong word. I know, right? I'm older and wise- well, older now, at least. >>> But they are. All the backscratching you complain about is morally >>> wrong and ethically illegal. >> Anyways, we don't really care, we've covered that. Both of our >> "causes" are screwed, because people just don't fucking care. Me >> included. > > No you don't care but how many times have you ranted about Haliburton? They rang hollow, don't you think? >> I'm talking about information here, really. If you think you can keep >> your kid from getting informed, or control what she takes in, you are >> sadly mistaken, I can tell you that much right now. > > Age appropriate. Hearing things on the street and getting instructions > from school are not the same. The C part of you're instructions comes > later, not need to get graphic at such a young age. I'm not advocating showing pornos, I'm advocating information. As a government, we sure as hell can't be all "Abstinence Only". People die who wouldn't have otherwise, statistically. If you believe the statistics. >> Not telling them about sex won't prevent them from knowing, and in >> some cases, experiencing. > > Now your talking about older kids again. There are sickos out there who mess with young kids, you know? You can't be around all the time, and the kid needs to know how to tell you something is wrong, right? >> Don't you remember being a kid? Did you ever "play doctor"? I won't >> ask when... but how old were you? ;) > > I still play. You know, I believe you. >>> PP does offer a valuable service but it also offers a very dishonest >>> one. A few bad apples maybe... >> You are specifically referring to abortion here, right? > > No. > So many things they do wrong here's just one: > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54079,00.html > Life Dynamics said one of its activists has called more than 800 > abortion clinics nationwide in recent months, pretending to be a > 13-year-old girl impregnated by her 22-year-old boyfriend. What she > learned is that more than 90 percent of the clinic employees handling > the calls said they would conceal the information provided by the > caller, according to Life Dynamics president Mark Crutcher. I don't think that is so bad. Do you have anything better than this? I will feel like a failure if my daughter doesn't think she can tell me she's pregnant. BTW, abstinence only leads to a lot of crap like this. Kids too scared to tell their parents what is going on in their lives for fear of being judged. >> Calling it dishonest is like, giving emotion to a inanimate object. >> The rock is happy. My chair is honest. It smells like the color >> purple. > > Did you just take another hit? If so, it was a tiny one, as I've got to ration now that I'm poorer than normal. No blunts in recent memory... sad days. >> It was like your "educators are happy when there are no jobs" comment. > > Not the individual educators. The advertising agencies, the > institutions like University of Pheonix tend to earn more when people > can be sold on more education = job. That's what is always pushed though, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that's one of the things I rail against-- not education, but certification. A lot of times you get the cert without the ed. >>> I;m not against abortions, I'm against promoting abortion as a method >>> of birth control. You should too since you want to teach younguns >>> about condoms. >> Who cares, so long as we cut down on the babies, right? The world is >> about to fucking end, Sam! > > Who said the world is ending? I thought you said the end was neigh, due to health care? Closer than normal, then? >> And all because of health care. How apropos. > > Ah, you mean the world as we know, leaders of the free world and all > that. We'll be fine with Germany calling the shots, oh wait, that plan > seems to be failing too. Well there's the Chinese and the Russians > left to make the important decisions like who's side to take with NK, > Iran and Israel. Speaking of McCarthyism :) If it does go down like that, I won't be blaming politicians. Nothing more than token blame, at least. ;0) >>>>> Who died from abstinence only education? You mean the twelve-year-old >>>> Are you arguing with the data? Is that too, a grand conspiracy? >>> I haven't seen data, you got? >> HIV/AIDS statistics from Africa, and India, I think. Sorta like that >> deal Judah was talking about with the insurance lotto, data like that. > > Aids killed people in Africa because we didn't teach our 12 year-old's > how to condom a cuke? Do you change the subject for fun or because > your flustered :) > BTW, they say GWB saved 10 million people in Africa from aids. Bet you > didn't want to know that tidbit of info. Why wouldn't I like to hear good news? I've never said Bush43 *never* did good. I never say never. Well, maybe rarely, to make a point. 12 is old enough to know about condoms, don't you think? I like this quote from some random place: Public health programs funded with taxpayer dollars must be designed based upon scientific principles of what has been proven to be effective. >> Imagine how inhumane it would be to equip one group with knowledge, >> and tell the other one, "just don't do it", and see who fared better, >> neh? > > Did I mention that sex-ed changes as they get older? I think they only > teach AO to kids twelve and younger. Heh. I'm old as the hills now, and I was "active" before 12. Kids these days? Yikes! I think we're evolving bigger boobs, too. I'm need to get a shotgun and oodles of muscle. >>> Only for the age group it targeted. >> When do we start equipping our children for life? > > Who decides? Now? The government. >> There are really people out there who are dumb enough to think that >> telling the kids to "wait" is enough. I don't think you're one of >> them, but you defend them for some reason. I'm not sure why. Why? > > Again it's about the age. After twelve sex-ed changes. 12 is "old enough" to learn about condoms tho, for sure for sure. I'd start 2 years earlier, at least. And it might be different for boys and girls, neh? >> Should we avoid teaching that the earth is round-ish, in case some >> children aren't married? Sounds silly and non-sensical, neh? =)p > > Maybe someone sprinkled angel dust in your blunt Close-- formaldehyde. >>> My point is nobody checked on Obama, yet you're happy. You shouldn't be. >> Your definition of nobody is weird. Aren't you all up on his jock? > > Me on HOF? That will do a lot of good. How about the MSM? Isn't it > there job to tell us these things? MSM? I think "ratings" is the "age old" job, which we have to regulate, lest it get out of hand. Better to start local, IMHO. >> I heard he wasn't really even born in America. > > You'll never know because we we can't look at the docs. Didn't you > just say something like that? Fore sure! Something like that. Only my example matters. :) >>> Don't back up to fast you might trip :) >> Not /that/ kind of link. A personal check to Bin Laden from a Saudi >> Prince with the note: "to kill infidels". Give me a break. =) > > You know the Saudi Royal Family is behind 9/11 but you can't prove it > and you're angry we don't go to war against them. Is that right? No. I'm not a big war monger, though I do like the toys. Love, maybe. Yup, love. Who wouldn't?!?! I'm just saying that a less focused approach would have served us better. This idea that all the terrorists came out of hiding and became soldiers to fight us in Iraq or whatever is silly. >> Why would I think the Saudis "need some work"? They're not alone, IMO >> there were several better places to throw our weight than Iraq. > > Like SA? Because of the link? Saddam brought that war on himself, and > Iraq is better off for it. That is unless we pull all the troops out > and Iran marches in. Then it would have been a huge waste. I don't believe in waste. Everything happens for a reason. :) >> You don't think Iraq was the best move, do you? > > The best? That decision is above my pay grade. I don't see the problem > with it that you do. To each their own. Some prefer war. I think it's hell. I think violence should be the last resort. >> Yes, I'm not sure where that came from either. Something like feeling >> responsible for harm your countrymen do in the name of the country or >> something. Gah. It's kind of hard to explain. If everyone had >> religion separate from government, it would be easier to explain. >> Some places still mix the two tho. To each their own... but yuck. > > I'm not following, are you into the whole "Weatherman were freedom > fighters" crap? Literally or by definition? I'm not big on violence. Not /that/ kind of violence. Ultimate fighting is fine by me, you see. But my point was more, "what if our terrorists were out terrorizing other countries?". >>> Why do you not like Kennedy's plan? Because Bush signed it? >> Same reason you don't like Health Care. It can be fixed tho. We can hone >> it. > > Wasn't NCLB bi-partisan? We can fix that too. >> Sure, that would have worked. Who would have thought that we'd have a >> S&L.... oh.... yeah... > > Funny how that worked out, and the GOP got the blame just like the > play book said. Stereotypes are a weird deal. Wonder how we change 'em? >>>> That is what we need to focus on. Screw this defeatist attitude. >>>> Health care reform is a damn-sight better goal than invading Iraq. >>> A nation is saved, a nation destroyed. Which is which? >> War is hell. > > Sometimes it's a necessary hell. Who decides? >> And if it's about saving people, what about Darfur, etc.? > > You changing subjects again? What about Darfur. So now we're back to > molding the reasons for the war so you can argue against those points? > Been there... No subject change. Maybe a better question would be "what criteria do they use to decide", neh? >> It's a cycle, it appears. Odd that you can justify massive debt to >> help others because of abstract principles, but when it's for "us" >> because of concrete reasons... REVOLT! > > We're back to Health Care fantasy land again? Yeah yeah, if you're > against Obama's health care plan you probably kill kittens too. > > Threat of deadly force vs threat of rationed care. I'll put my money > on the former. We shouldn't be in the threatening business. Our awesomeness alone is enough. If you're against the health care stuff because of the health care stuff --which you profess, but I have trouble believing-- that's fine and dandy and more power to you. If you're against it because it's "Obama's" plan, fuck off. I think we're echoing each other, sorta. Both saying the other is more tied to the person than the principle. What a strange world. >> The Tee Party does seem pretty organized for true grass roots, don't >> you think? Sorta Obama vs. Dean deal. Dean's being more "natural" >> IMO. > > You're so Hollywood. Ordinary people with homemade signs bitching > isn't convincing. But people bussed in with professionally printed > signs seems more real to you? No, you misunderstood. Dean was the homey one. >> Can you imagine the Democrats saying "we will use the protesters >> ""platform"" to form our own"? > > Axelrod or was it Emanual created astroturfing. Yeah it's a democrat > thing. How do you think a black nobody became the president? Hard work? Still a bit different from my example though. The Republicans have sorta lost it, neh? Searching for identity... while the Democrats infight as usual. What a world, what a world. >> I wasn't trying to. I thought that's how the theory worked. That >> people are naturally altruistic, we don't really need taxes or >> regulation and whathave you. It is in the powers that be's best >> interest to "bring up" those beneath. > > That's out there. It's trickle down economics. :) >> He seems like a rabble rouser. I like their agenda. I lament the >> lack of it from the Tea Party. Too bad they got stuck on a "side" (or >> the side stuck to them). > > So he want's to be a leader. Sometimes people honestly care, I'm not > getting that from him. I don't get "leader" out of him. Maybe "motivator", but who knows, I've barely heard the guy. He seemed to honestly care to me, though. Done some good stuff perhaps, etc.. >>> Why would you think that? Why don't you ask them rather than Hightower? >> Heh. I looked. The number 1 goal is supposed to be: >> "Identify constitutionality of every new law" >> Funny how I thought the whole deal was about health care. Poor >> bastards, that seems like a good list (the percent is the number of >> votes for each issue): > > So the problem with the grassroots movement is they couldn't get you > to read there message? I think that 's your problem, you judged or > were told incorrectly. Most of it I gleaned off your defense of them. What have you "really" been telling me? For some reason "constitutionalists" didn't spring to mind. >> Heh. The constitution. Awesome. > > Ain't it? It's just a piece of paper, really. >>> You mixed in with pork like it was all useless. >> We spend most of our money on defense, right? > > I'm sure there's waste to be cut like $2000 hammers someplace but you > don't just cut something because it's big. Especially the safety of > the world depends on it. I know you're thinking we have no business > protecting Poland from Russia, but I do. I thought you were fiscally responsible! So you *wouldn't* automatically look at your largest expenses (first even!), when trying to do a budget? No wonder the country ended up in such a rough spot after "you guys" ran the show for 8 years. ;) Screw Poland. And then screw Russia. And then have a cigarette. So long as they're consenting, of course. I'm not down for rape. >>> Again with the something, no matter how awful, is better than the >>> system most people were satisfied with? >> So most people were satisfied with the existing system now? Or did >> 70% or whatever number you quoted earlier want reform (just not "this" >> reform, you said)? > > They were satisfied with their insurance and health care, but see room > for improvements. Pardon me while I snort. *snort* >> Which is it? Do we want and need it, or were things fine as they were? > > Let's say you like your house but would think it would e helpful to > have another bathroom. Do you add an extension or do you knock the > house down and start over? Depends on the shape of the house I'd think. >>> Obama, and his actions have stalled the recovery, health care was the icing. >> >> You must be smarter than I, to know so much about economics. Lots of >> people tell me it's not that complicated, but I don't buy it. Heck, >> even easy stuff like "supply and demand" trips me out sometimes. > > Playing safe? You're right, nobody can ever know what directly effects > the economy, we can only guess. So Obama's actions get a pass. Like it matters. Some people think Regan had it right, some not. Course, some people think cutting taxes and spending more (for a good cause!) is being fiscally responsible, so... It's a strange world, even when sober. It's amazingly strange when you're on acid-- tho not as strange as I thought it would be, sadly. >>> Treading water? Is that what happens if you don't get a raise every >>> year you drown? Maybe you're not saving >> Is the cost of living a constant in your world or what? >> And I, personally, /was/ saving- the little bit that I could, but >> medical crap wiped that out but quick (and it took so long to build it >> up! boohoo), so now I need a new job or else I'll continue to slide >> further into debt. I don't like not having enough money. I have only >> my own lack of initiative to blame, coupled with a fear of change >> (even tho I like change). > > Are you living beyond your means? Have to have all the latest gadgets? > Drive a silly Prius? Large screen tv? $10,000 worth of music in your > iTunes account? Vacation often? I'm now living beyond my means. Can't put the bill collectors off for ever though, and I don't want to be paying them off for ever, either. No new tech gadgets in years. Last big buy was 2 grand for a TV, 2 years back. Haven't vacationed in 2 years. Used my leave to care for my family (hospital fun, etc.), and got written up for using "too much" of *my own fucking time* ta boot. 2 2 2 too! Guess it's time to move on, neh? =) > I make double the money many of my neighbors make but you'd never know > it by the cars they drive, the hot tubs, built in pools, iphones for > all the kids, jewelery etc. Amazing how flashy people without a lot of > money are. They all went bankrupt, the flashy ones, and carry on the > same. Bragging about who wrote of the most money. Heh. You probably think the only reason I'm pro health care reform is because I think it would help pay my bills (it won't). The medical related stuph I've been through (not me, personally) the last few years drove home a lot that I wouldn't have cared about before, though. That much is true. >> If I can't get a better job, even just slightly better, I'm not going >> to blame anyone (or thing) but myself. But I'm strong like that. I >> feel like I can affect the world in amazing ways. That an individual >> can be a game changer, yadda yadda. > > If you're salary doubled you'd still be treading water, it's a mind > set you need to snap out of. Heh. To some extent, you're right. We humans can be pretty capable when we put our minds to it. And I /was/ living pretty close to the end of my means before I quit doing the overtime. However, I'm pretty sure the main problem is the 10 grand less I make without the overtime, and the increase in medical bills + new monthly $200+ script expenses. Or rather, that's the immediate problem. The main one has, like you said, more to do with a mind set. >> When I'll actually realize this awesome potential is anyone's guess, >> if ever... I'll settle for a wonderful life if I have to. ;) >> >> Anyways, to blam Obama for the current mess is more silly than blaming >> Bush43. > > Obama didn't cause the current mess nor did Bush. ... We both know that, but isn't it amazingly fucking fun to say it's the President's fault? 0bama! Bush43! Hitting up whole parties isn't half bad either, right? =] Seriously tho: Bush43 did suck more than 0bama has so far. J :)e|\|* -- People demand freedom of speech as a compensation f ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:320594 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
