On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Jerry Barnes <critic...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Fair enough. What do you think is the tipping point then where race isn't a > predictor of poverty?" > > All I can say is that the point has passed. Race is used these days as > political currency. By declaring one race poorer than another and promising > rectification of the problem, a politician is trying to buy votes. Remove > that currency. Use economics as the standard and not race warefare.
Sounds like the argument for definition of obscenity being "I know it when I see it". Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true and a gut feeling about politics doesn't make for a very good policy basis. I can reasonably think of a number of potential rubrics, like when the percentage in poverty isn't substantially different from one racial group to another. I'm sure that there are many others that could be put out there as well. But considering that you chastised me for saying that "class" isn't a useful enough distinction, I find it hard to accept "I just know" as a distinction either. > > "Poverty rates are certainly substantially higher amongst non-whites and the > middle class is certainly smaller. " > > But as you said yourself, the black middle class is growing rapidly. I also > saw a report that said the growth of business startups is higher among > Blacks than any other race. The black middle class *was* growing rapidly. Of course, that was rapidly from a baseline of 0. The middle class, in general, has been hit the last couple decades and the black middle class is more tenuous than the white middle class. I went and finally looked up the stats and the Pew Center offered these stats in 2007: 45% of black children from middle class families end up "near poor". The comparable number for white families is 16%. 31% of black children from black middle class families make more than their parents. The comparable number for children from white middle class families is 68%. The average child from a white middle class family ends up with a higher income than their parents. The average child from a black middle class family ends up with a lower income than their parents. The black middle class is much bigger than it was in, say, 1960. Statistics show that those gains, however, are tenuous at best. We are talking a generation or two that has been undergoing these changes. The white middle class has had many generations longer to solidify its gains and even with that advantage, the current environment is tough. > "At some point, though, I agree that class will have much more to do with a > cycle/culture of poverty that is based more on local conditions than > anything else. " > > That's fine. I believe we are well past the point. All it does now is > allow race-baiters like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson to remain relevant > and allow politicians to hide real issues behind charges of racism. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are all about attention seeking. It is like saying that Pat Buchanan represents all white people. I understand that you feel that we are well past the point, but I honestly don't see any evidence of that. > "Also, conditions aren't the same for african-americans versus hispanics > versus south east asians, etc. Do you feel that we moved passed race for all > the non-white groups or just some of them?" > > This is very tricky ground. One has to be subtle how one states the issues > or he ends up sounding racist. Let me say it this way. Asian Americans > seem to be doing fine and they are a minority. Asian immigrant parents work > hard and their children rise out of poverty frequently. It is tricky. There is more than just race involved. Education, marriage rates, out of wedlock births, religion, family size and support...there are a huge number of factors that come into play. Race is a tricky thing to even define in America considering the amount of intermarrying. Pew has a 2008 study on the plight of the middle class in general which is instructive: http://pewsocialtrends.org/pubs/706/middle-class-poll And here is the archive.org version of the 2007 USA Today article about the Pew study on the black middle class. I couldn't find it on the usatoday site anymore, it seems to have been reorganized: http://web.archive.org/web/20080220175857/http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/11/downward-mobili.html Che ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:323394 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
