yeah. that's pretty much what I am talking about, although I didn't tie it to Iran-Contra. I don't think it made Ollie North a hero, myself.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larrycly...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Also remember at the same time Reagan's representatives were meeting > with the Iranians to get a deal through to not return the hostages > until after the election. The same people were responsible for selling > anti-air and ground to ground missiles to the Iranians, directly > against US law. > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Dana <dana.tier...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hard to tell here what's a quote. But just wanted to say -- Carter's >> competence depends on your definition. He was not a big-picture guy, I >> would agree. And ironically, it was detail that causes the hostage >> rescue to fail. I am not sure what Carter could have done to prevent >> that, though. A sandstorm is a sandstorm no matter who is president. I >> think that to some extent he gets a bad rap. The Reagan PR machine >> needed him for contrast though. >> >> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Barnes <critic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> "Personally, I'd rate the Regan administration as way worse than the LBJ >>> administration. LBJ had some decent accomplishments: Civil Rights Act, >>> Medicare/Medicaid, Student Loan Program, FOIA. Regan had nothing >>> equivalent. >>> " >>> >>> So, you think the Great Society had a positive impact? >>> >>> There is certainly a sense of irony about the Civil Rights act since LBJ >>> was so adamantly against it for the previous 20 years. It was a Republican >>> ideal that he co-opted in order to garner votes and stay in power. Politics >>> as normal. >>> >>> >>> "This civil rights program about which you have heard so much is a farce >>> and a sham--an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty. I >>> am opposed to that program. I fought it in the Congress. It is the province >>> of the state to run its own elections. I am opposed to the anti-lynching >>> bill because the Federal Government has no business enacting a law against >>> one kind of murder than another...(And) if a man can tell you who you must >>> hire, he can tell you who not to employ. I have met this head on." - Lyndon >>> B Johnson >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, the 1965 vote had more Republicans vote for it than Democrats even >>> though they were a minority in congress. It wouldn't be hard to argue that >>> it's not his legacy at all. It wouldn't be hard to argue that Nixon did >>> more for civil rights than Johnson (though it may be for the same reason: >>> to protect his position). He signed the voting rights amendment, equal >>> opportunity legislation, and encouraged affirmative action. He even signed >>> Title IX, even though he thought it might be the end of college sports (see >>> Maryland University now for confirmation). >>> >>> >>> "Obviously you have to balance those out against Vietnam and the debacle >>> there." >>> >>> Compared to the destruction of the Soviet Bloc by Reagan (which may seem >>> like a shame to some readers). >>> >>> >>> "LBJ did a lot to strengthen the country but caused it a lot pain as well. >>> His legacy in both areas continues to be felt today. " >>> >>> Yeah, the Immigration Act of 1965 that he signed is really being felt as >>> illegals continue to overrun our country. >>> >>> Then there is the destruction, or at least erosion, of >>> the traditional family unit, particularly in the Black community. But that >>> is probably all good with the progressive folks, who resent a traditional >>> family unit anyway. Here is some good info from Walter Williams about the >>> "positive" impact of the Great Society on Blacks. >>> >>> Only 30 to 40 percent of black males graduate from high school. Many of >>> those who do graduate emerge with reading and math skills of a white >>> seventh- or eighth-grader. This is true in cities where a black is mayor, a >>> black is superintendent of schools and the majority of principals and >>> teachers are black. It's also true in cities where the per pupil education >>> expenditures are among the highest in the nation. >>> >>> >>> >>> Across the U.S., black males represent up to 70 percent of prison >>> populations. Are they in prison for crimes against whites? To the contrary, >>> their victims are primarily other blacks. Department of Justice statistics >>> for 2001 show that in nearly 80 percent of violent crimes against blacks, >>> both the victim and the perpetrator were the same race. In other words, >>> it's not Reaganites, Bush supporters, right-wing ideologues or the Klan >>> causing blacks to live in fear of their lives and property and making their >>> neighborhoods economic wastelands. >>> >>> >>> >>> Across the U.S., black males represent up to 70 percent of prison >>> populations. Are they in prison for crimes against whites? To the contrary, >>> their victims are primarily other blacks. Department of Justice statistics >>> for 2001 show that in nearly 80 percent of violent crimes against blacks, >>> both the victim and the perpetrator were the same race. In other words, >>> it's not Reaganites, Bush supporters, right-wing ideologues or the Klan >>> causing blacks to live in fear of their lives and property and making their >>> neighborhoods economic wastelands. >>> >>> >>> >>> Or this great read from Thomas Sowell. >>> >>> August 20th marks the 40th anniversary of one of the major turning points >>> in American social history. That was the date on which President Lyndon >>> Johnson signed legislation creating his "War on Poverty" program in 1964. >>> >>> Never had there been such a comprehensive program to tackle poverty at its >>> roots, to offer more opportunities to those starting out in life, to >>> rehabilitate those who had fallen by the wayside, and to make dependent >>> people self-supporting. Its intentions were the best. But we know what road >>> is paved with good intentions. >>> >>> The War on Poverty represented the crowning triumph of the liberal vision >>> of society -- and of government programs as the solution to social >>> problems. The disastrous consequences that followed have made the word >>> "liberal" so much of a political liability that today even candidates with >>> long left-wing track records have evaded or denied that designation. >>> >>> In the liberal vision, slums bred crime. But brand-new government housing >>> projects almost immediately became new centers of crime and quickly >>> degenerated into new slums. Many of these projects later had to be >>> demolished. Unfortunately, the assumptions behind those projects were not >>> demolished, but live on in other disastrous programs, such as Section 8 >>> housing. >>> >>> Rates of teenage pregnancy and venereal disease had been going down for >>> years before the new 1960s attitudes toward sex spread rapidly through the >>> schools, helped by War on Poverty money. These downward trends suddenly >>> reversed and skyrocketed. >>> >>> The murder rate had also been going down, for decades, and in 1960 was just >>> under half of what it had been in 1934. Then the new 1960s policies toward >>> curing the "root causes" of crime and creating new "rights" for criminals >>> began. Rates of violent crime, including murder, skyrocketed. >>> >>> The black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and >>> discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state >>> that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency >>> rescue to a way of life. >>> >>> Government social programs such as the War on Poverty were considered a way >>> to reduce urban riots. Such programs increased sharply during the 1960s. So >>> did urban riots. Later, during the Reagan administration, which was >>> denounced for not promoting social programs, there were far fewer urban >>> riots. >>> >>> Neither the media nor most of our educational institutions question the >>> assumptions behind the War on Poverty. Even conservatives often attribute >>> much of the progress that has been made by lower-income people to these >>> programs. >>> >>> For example, the usually insightful quarterly magazine City Journal says in >>> its current issue: "Beginning in the mid-sixties, the condition of most >>> black Americans improved markedly." >>> >>> That is completely false and misleading. >>> >>> The economic rise of blacks began decades earlier, before any of the >>> legislation and policies that are credited with producing that rise. The >>> continuation of the rise of blacks out of poverty did not -- repeat, did >>> not -- accelerate during the 1960s. >>> >>> The poverty rate among black families fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 >>> percent in 1960, during an era of virtually no major civil rights >>> legislation or anti-poverty programs. It dropped another 17 percentage >>> points during the decade of the 1960s and one percentage point during the >>> 1970s, but this continuation of the previous trend was neither >>> unprecedented nor something to be arbitrarily attributed to the programs >>> like the War on Poverty. >>> >>> In various skilled trades, the incomes of blacks relative to whites more >>> than doubled between 1936 and 1959 -- that is, before the magic 1960s >>> decade when supposedly all progress began. The rise of blacks in >>> professional and other high-level occupations was greater in the five years >>> preceding the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than in the five years afterwards. >>> >>> While some good things did come out of the 1960s, as out of many other >>> decades, so did major social disasters that continue to plague us today. >>> Many of those disasters began quite clearly during the 1960s. >>> >>> >>> This quote from Star Parker seems appropriate: >>> >>> Thirty-five years of Great Society social engineering have forced the >>> disadvantaged to live under the control of the federal government. >>> Politicians control their housing, their food supply, their schooling, >>> their wages, and their transportation. A centralized government makes >>> decisions about their childcare, healthcare, and retirement. It controls >>> their reproduction through abortion and wants to control their deaths >>> through euthanasia. - Star Parker >>> >>> >>> and this one >>> >>> This was nothing less than a prescription for the utter destruction of >>> traditional black families, and had it been proposed by the Imperial Wizard >>> of the KKK such a program would have met with a quick and well-deserved >>> fate. But embraced by liberal intellectuals and politicians, the war on >>> poverty was the policy equivalent of smallpox on inner-city black families >>> >>> *A Patriots History of the United States*, pp. 68 >>> >>> >>> Yes, that's a great legacy there. >>> >>> >>> "Regan, there was no equivalent upside, in my opinion." >>> >>> Sure. It is opinion. I am glad you realize that and aren't proclaiming it >>> as Gospel. >>> >>> What about Carter? There was no time elapsed between their two terms. >>> >>> I'll give Carter some props. I will say he was probably honest. >>> Incompetent? Sure. But he was honest. >>> >>> >>> J >>> >>> - >>> >>> "He hasn't got the depth of mind nor the breadth of vision to carry great >>> responsibility... Johnson is superficial and opportunistic." Dwight >>> Eisenhower on LBJ >>> >>> "He tells so many lies that he convinces himself after a while he's telling >>> the truth. He just doesn't recognise truth or falsehood." Robert F Kennedy >>> on LBJ >>> "I never trust a man unless I've got his pecker in my pocket "- L >>> >>> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:347257 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
