What I mean by win is that we punished those responsible for 9/11, and made it possible for the Northern Alliance to have run the country.
We should have stepped out right then. Provided them with arms and funding and run for the hills. I agree about Pakistan. Saudi and Iran play their part as well. On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larrycly...@gmail.com>wrote: > > Don't confuse taking the ground with winning. As long as the taliban > were intact they win. They just followed classic guerrilla warfare > They have safe havens in the Pakistani tribal regions, and from there > it was easy to survive. While Mullah Omar was the nominal leader, the > real controllers appear to be the Pakistani ISI. To me its every > indication that we are not fighting the right people. We should give > Pakistan a deadline and after that fully support India. Its much more > stable and democratic. > > On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:04 PM, LRS Scout <lrssc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > All these things being the same, we had basically one the war by 2002. > The > > Taliban and Al Qaeda had been taken out as a power in the country, > > retreating into Pakistan. > > > > SOCOM did with around 200 men what we can't seem to do with tens of > > thousands. > > > > On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Dana <dana.tier...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> um. Seems to me it was actually the East India Company and the British > Army > >> was repeated defeated defending it. They may have been nominally in > control > >> of the place but they soon wished they weren't. Did you ever read > Kipling? > >> Here's a link on some of the early history behind the name: > >> > >> http://www.britishbattles.com/first-afghan-war/kabul-1842.htm > >> > >> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larrycly...@gmail.com > >> >wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > The graveyard of empires is really a myth. Afghanistan through most of > >> > its history was a part of larger empires - the Persian, Mongol, > >> > British etc. It wasn't until the 1700's that it became effectively > >> > independent. The British actually controlled Afghanistan from the > >> > 1880's through 1930 or so. > >> > > >> > On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:50 AM, Eric Roberts > >> > <ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > There is a good reason Afghanistan is called the graveyard of > Empires. > >> I > >> > > don't think the Bush administration was operating in any known > >> > reality...so > >> > > this "fantasy" was probably a part of it. The rest is greed and > giving > >> > tax > >> > > dollars to his buddies based on no bid contracts for civilians to > take > >> > over > >> > > many of the military functions...like cooks, mechanics, laundry, > >> > > construction, etc....also throw in the "protection" role of > Blackwater > >> or > >> > > whatever they call themselves these days...Xe I think...or did they > >> > change > >> > > that too? You have a pretty sweet deal for defense contractors. > >> > Military > >> > > industrial complex is swimming in cash...at least until the > treasury is > >> > > drained. He certainly didn't try to bolster the treasury with the > tax > >> > cuts > >> > > to the rich. The ones to the middle class and lower class were a > >> > pittance > >> > > and in reality didn't do squat. Welcome to the fascist police > state my > >> > > friends... > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: Judah McAuley [mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com] > >> > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:17 PM > >> > > To: cf-community > >> > > Subject: Re: Pics from the NATO Protest > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Afghanistan also has significant deposits of minerals used in high > tech > >> > > manufacturing. > >> > > > >> > > However, I really don't think that was the reason we invaded. It's > >> > possible > >> > > that some far right delusional folks thought we might take over > >> > Afghanistan > >> > > and suppress the Taliban and do a good job extracting resources and > >> > helping > >> > > guard against an alliance over oil between Russia and the Middle > East. > >> > But, > >> > > given history, I think that most people in their right minds would > have > >> > > regarded that as a rather extreme fantasy. We can bomb a country > back > >> to > >> > > the dark ages, but when it's already in the dark ages? Really, what > are > >> > your > >> > > odds of success? > >> > > > >> > > No, we've got the good old fashioned military industrial complex at > >> > work. I > >> > > know, seems trite, doesn't it? Eisenhower warned us against it, > after > >> > all. > >> > > That makes it pretty long in the tooth. Obviously just hippy shit > these > >> > days > >> > > that people tell each other as they fit aluminum foil hats. > >> > > > >> > > There is a huge amount of money to be made and a huge amount of > power > >> to > >> > be > >> > > had by simply being at war. Doesn't matter so much with who. > >> > > There are advantages one way or another with different enemies. > Sure, > >> if > >> > we > >> > > did manage to triumph in Afghanistan, it would have some nice > benefits. > >> > Same > >> > > thing for Iraq. Or Iran. But that's all secondary. A nice bonus, if > you > >> > > will. Keeping people afraid allows you to pass further draconian > laws > >> > that > >> > > blow away privacy. Being at war allows you to funnel massive > amounts of > >> > > money to a tiny number of big companies and agencies with secret > >> budgets > >> > and > >> > > no bids. Spending trillions on wars allows you to look at the > >> increasing > >> > > deficits and say, "oh no! We need to cut everywhere other than > >> defense!" > >> > and > >> > > put people further into poverty and even more into subjugation. > >> > > > >> > > The brilliant part of the "war on terror" is that it isn't a war > with > >> > > anyone. It's a war with an idea. No one ever gets to easily claim > >> "we've > >> > > won" and be able to show it. There is no white flag from the enemy. > >> > Anyone > >> > > who ever says "we're done" will have a well trained group of media > >> attack > >> > > dogs jumping them and saying "you gave up and are a coward" and > "you've > >> > > placed everyone's children at risk". Hell, that's happened to Obama > >> and > >> > he > >> > > doubled down in Afghanistan. > >> > > > >> > > Nope. The legacy of 9/11 is that we have a country where we funnel > >> almost > >> > > unlimited (and totally untracked) amounts of money into an endless > war > >> > > against unknown and constantly changing enemies while sacrificing an > >> > untold > >> > > number of civil liberties for no appreciable end game. There are > plenty > >> > of > >> > > other games within a game (like the millenarian folks that think > that > >> > Israel > >> > > has to have some sort of weird war stuff to happen for the rapture > to > >> > come) > >> > > but when you have hugely profitable companies making large amounts > of > >> > money > >> > > and government power brokers gaining greater control over the > populace, > >> > > they'll be pretty happy with a continued state of rolling unrest. > >> > > > >> > > Authoritarianism suits large industry and large government. And war > is > >> > the > >> > > best way to ensure that authoritarianism keeps a strong grip on our > >> > country. > >> > > > >> > > Judah > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Larry C. Lyons < > >> larrycly...@gmail.com> > >> > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> exactly the only greed factor I can see is with KBR, but during > that > >> > >> time period they didn't have the same presence as they did in > Iraq. I > >> > >> think Tim can enlighten us on that - he was there. > >> > >> > >> > >> But the only real money to be made in Afghanistan are with opium > and > >> > weed. > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:351417 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
