Hello....coming in on the end of this no doubt, so bear with me. Timothy, surely anyone who is a citizen, and has a right to vote, has the same right to vote, and indeed to a political opinion, as someone who was born in that country? So the "were you born here" argument is invalid, and to be honest potentially a little distasteful.
Also, saying why come here if you don't like everything about the country, is like saying leave if you don't like everything about the country. That's just not democratic at worst, and at the very least will lead to conservative, never changing politics. Just a few thoughts. w -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Gilchrist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 August 2002 15:52 To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others That's a bit oversimplified, you assume everyone makes migration decisions based on ideology. The quick and easy answer is that most people do so for economic reasons. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:48 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others Ok, So you moved to this country, with a knowledge that you dislike the way it's government does things. Why would you do that? I mean you came here from another country presumably Canada (I think you mentioned something along those lines once). Was the decision to originally move here purely economic? I guess I would ask any new immigrant 1 question that I would want an honest answer to. It would have to be an essay question I guess. Please summarize and to the best of your knowledge explain the reasons for and meaning of the constitution of the united states. I don't say if you don't like it leave. If you are born here I can totally understand disagreeing with the way thing are, and wanting to do something about it. My problem is if you aren't born here, and want to change things. I mean why come here in the first place, there has to be something here better than where ever you are coming from right? I have made it clear that I would like to see sweeping changes made to our government to see it returned to the constitutional republic from whence it came (I love that phrase :). However, I was born here. I have served in our armed forces. I vote in every election. I support candidates, I write letters, I sign petitions. I am proactive in regards to my opinions. I am not someone from the outside, who may not even understand our system of government, and what it means to us in both a legal and a cultural sense. Don't leave. Just don't come in the first place unless you like what you see. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:33 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > I am an immigrant. I am going for my citizenship later this year. > > to quote Isaac Dealey in response to what you imply: > > > And I say this: > > > > Just like America, if you don't like it, LEAVE! > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > I've never cared for this statement... I don't much care for the US gov't, > laws, policies ( foreign or domestic ) etc. but it's not always as easy as > "shut up or get out" ... Some of us actually would like to change > the things > we find troublesome or sometimes downright "wrong" about the way this > country operates, because we don't want to leave our families, friends or > homes behind to move out of the country. Even for those of us who may not > care to stay in the country, leaving isn't always an easy thing to do > either. It usually means finding a job in another country or learning > another language or both. > > We cultural critics don't present our criticisms necessarily because we > dislike the people here or because we think some place else is better, but > because we see things we feel need to change. Often we also don't know how > to go about changing these things we feel need to change, or rather, don't > have ready-made solutions, and so a lot of people see us as being > "whiners"... but really we're just trying to raise awareness of various > things we see as problems. > > I do agree however that anyone who has problems with the ways the list or > HoF are managed ought to present their complaints in a civil and > professional manner to the list or otherwise in any manner to Mike in > private email. > > Isaac Dealey > Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > > www.turnkey.to > 954-776-0046 > -- > > this about says it all on the topic. One can be critical of something or > those one may care about. Its a difficult concept to grasp. deal with it. > > larry > -- > Larry C. Lyons > ColdFusion/Web Developer > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > EBStor.com > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > tel: (703) 393-7930 > fax: (703) 393-2659 > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:28 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > I was speaking as relates to his past express opinions on > > this list. It's > > funny that as one of the people who knocks many of our > > policies, he still > > wants to immigrate here. > > > > Tim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:05 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > Timothy > > > > > > Stalin made that quote in the 1930's and has been quoted by both > > > on the left > > > and the right. One example is McCarthy who used it in a > > speech to his > > > infamous Committee on un-American Activities. All that type > > of insinuation > > > does is demonizes those that may think differently from convention. > > > > > > -- > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > EBStor.com > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > -- > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:00 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > > > > Why am I not surprised that you can quote Stalin? > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > ACP/CCFD :) > > > > 910-425-9988 > > > > > > > > Manager Fayetteville ColdFusion User Group > > > > http://www.fcfug.org > > > > > > > > Fusebox Advisory Committee Member > > > > http://www.fusebox.org > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:04 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: Re: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > > > > William H. Bowen wrote: > > > > > Of course, at the same time, the rest of the world > > broke their necks > > > > racing > > > > > at great speeds to help out. > > > > > > > > Some even broke their necks racing to help people deeper in. > > > > I can think > > > > of at least 4 countries (2 African and 2 European). But the > > > > thought that > > > > this tpe of calculation is actually made (even apart from the > > > > outcome of > > > > it) just doesn't feel right. > > > > > > > > And do you know what is scary? Hearing these numbers > > doesn't even make > > > > me angry, just sad. Sad of what a place this world is. > > Sad that when I > > > > take a god look at some of the classes I follow in Uni, they > > > > teach me to > > > > do exactly this type of calculation. But in the end I > > will just shrug > > > > and go on. > > > > Sometimes I wonder whether I should be disturbed by myself. > > > > > > > > Jochem > > > > > > > > -- > > > > A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. > > > > - Joseph Stalin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-community@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
