oy :) I will answer this when I have more time; it deserves a good answer. Let me just say though that I am not talking right now about what *I* believe. I am talking about pragmatics and politics. I am talking about the 2-year-old with his leg blown off who died yesterday. Forget that we airlifted him to a hospital while Iraqi troops fired on the helicopter. Forget that it may or may not have been us that fired the shot that blew off his leg. To everyone who knew him, that kid will have died because we invaded. And this passes the test of logic -- whatever else might have been wrong in that kid's life, it is likely that if we had not invaded, he would have had one.
Now, I will get back to this thread after I finish what I am working on :) I am closing email to avoid further temptation :) Dana [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Children get killed here every day. Why aren't people in the streets > protesting the bastards that do that? Why isn't anyone protesting the > cowards that walk into Israeli movie theaters, bus stops and SCHOOLS to blow > up children. Shit I promise you more children died because of Saddam and > his policies than are going to die in this war. I know how it is to be a > parent, I am one. I would kill anyone that even looked at my kid the wring > way, but lets be realistic. Is the next generation in Iraq going to be > better off with or without that madman running Iraq? I think we can all > agree that he has shown himself a butcher, and his children are no better, > maybe worse. How much longer to we let this drag on before we say no more? > > This isn't just Iraq, and I really don't think it will end in Iraq. It's an > ideal, a belief in the sanctity and the value of human life. In liberty. I > am willing to give up my life, and to take others lives, in order to forward > the cause of liberty for my children, and for you children, and for Egypt's > children and Iraq's children. > > Dana, when is it enough to fight for? We live in a new age. The world > isn't as large as it once was. Not that we are running out of space, just > that we are all closer through video, TV and the internet. How much longer > will we be able to, in good conscience, turn our backs on the world. To > allow all of the petty dictators and junior Dr. Evils of the world run > around and do what they want. How many children will we have to let the > next Pol Pot get? How long will we turn a blind eye to the atrocities in > China, Iran, Libya, South America? > > We cannot personally rebuild all of these places. We cannot occupy them all > and make them do what we want. The only recourse we have is to kill the bad > ones. I think it's a rather simple doctrine. Don't do evil. The golden > rule with a twist, do unto others, or we'll do unto you. Wiccan say "Do as > you will so long as you harm none". I would change that to say something > like "Harm none lest ye be harmed". See the idea of the laws of three get > left out of the basic wiccan ideal. That whatever you do will be brought > back against you three fold. I am not saying it's what I believe. My wife > is into that stuff not me. I just think is a good idea when looked at in the > correct light. > > We have the opportunity to create an amazing world. Its going to be hard, > it's going to cost money, blood and lives. We cannot sacrifice individual > liberty in the way we are now in doing so. I am tired of hearing > apologists, and those who would compromise. Can the rat compromise with the > snake? Ideologies can be looked at like that. Some are just incompatible. > > We are killing children in Iraq. This is a fact. We have killed children > all over the world. This is not a nice thing, a pretty thing. It is a side > effect of war. Diplomacy must have it's day, I am not saying do away with > it, but it also must eventually be put aside and the work of creation, > directed violence, must begin. This is the truth of human existence. The > dichotomy of love and hate. Peace through war. Wealth through poverty. > > Can you look at this world objectively? Without the tug of the heart > strings? Can you see 20, 30 or 100 years from now? I try, and without a > major war, a cultural shift, I don't like what I see. I see an America in > decline. I see third world countries taking over. Rather than our lifting > countries to our level, we are dragged in to their quagmire. > > > Wow I am Fu*&King depressing today > > </rant> > > Hehe sorry, this cold medicine must be getting to me > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:29 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Bush decided to "take out Saddam" in March > > > put it this way, I hope you are right. But I don't think so, personally. We > are killing children in Iraq, you think that isn't reinforcing the view of > us as the Great Satan? However inintentional these deaths may be. > > forget morality, even on pragmatic grounds this war is a bad idea. > > imho > > Nick McClure writes: > > > Well, I don't see the current war in Iraq as being for one persons > > benefit. > > > > I think it will greatly benefit the rest of the world to have a large > > democratically elected government in the Middle East that isn't trying > > to invade its neighbors, and isn't supporting Palestinian terrorists. > > > > Without that money, it may make them less likely to take part in the > > bombings, which may lead to peace in that area. Peace between the > > Israelis and the Palestinians may bring down the overall level animosity > > between Israel and the other Arab nations, and maybe, just maybe, we can > > help to create a stable environment where people aren't suffering from > > political persecution, are able to speak their minds and not have their > > food and water taken away from them. > > > > But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:11 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Bush decided to "take out Saddam" in March > > > > > > i dunno about you but I see a moral difference between accomplishing > > > nothing and active harm caused to others for one's own personal > > benefit. > > > > > > Nick McClure writes: > > > > > > > He didn't? So were you awake when he fired the 750 cruise missiles > > after > > > > Iraq kicked out the inspectors? Instead he spent $750 Million on > > > > missiles alone not counting the delivery mechanisms. Maybe he didn't > > > > line his own pockets, but what he did cost a lot of money and > > > > accomplished nothing. > > > > > > > > But it did get the headlines away from his "personal" problems for a > > > > while. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:03 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: Bush decided to "take out Saddam" in March > > > > > > > > > > yeah yeah yeah > > > > > > > > > > At least he didnt start a war just to line his own pockets :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick McClure writes: > > > > > > > > > > > But now the majority of high school students think oral sex is > > less > > > > > > intimate than kissing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 2:46 PM > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bush decided to "take out Saddam" in March > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clinton was a sleaze personally, but under him my standard of > > > > living > > > > > > > markedly improved. Bush has trashed the economy and any hope > > of > > > > peace > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the middle east. In my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
