----- Original Message -----
From: Dana Tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2003 10:23 am
Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> there are still people in the world hiring for cobol? yeesh
>
> Josh Remus writes:
>
> > depends. If I were hiring a job which would be strictly coding
> in "X
> > Language" (whether it be CF or whatever), I might be tempted to
> hire an "X
> > Programmer." I certainly wouldn't hire someone who had a
> liberal arts
> > degree and no experience coding X. But if there were a liberal-
> arts person
> > who had solid X Programming experience, I would jump on them
> immediately.> Get the best of both worlds there.
> >
> > I honestly believe there shouldn't be a job in IT that doesn't
> include "Must
> > be able to speak to non-IT people." But I can understand that
> in a large
> > enough organization (or even a small one that was doing primarily
> > development) you can probably also get away with hiring the poor
> > communicator.
> >
> > I sit on a local 2-year college's CIS advisory board, and all I
> say almost
> > every time is "more liberal arts classes, better communication
> skills." But
> > there are those (say at the local hospital network, which is the
> largest> employer in the area) that are looking for a single-skill
> person (in that
> > case, COBOL, god bless those idiots).
> >
> > My company is small (and getting smaller), and everyone needs to
> be able to
> > communicate & learn just about anything. It's just not an
> option to have
> > anything else here.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dana Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:32 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> >
> >
> > ok, if you define the job to include "must be able to speak to
> non-IT
> > people" then I suppose you are right. I certainly think the
> liberal arts
> > are valuable - the interdisciplinary honors classes I "wasted"
> time on in
> > college were some of the best time I ever invested -- but if
> you really
> > had
> > to define a core skill for a code it would be proven ability
> to code, no?
> >
> > Dana
> >
> > Josh Remus writes:
> >
> > > As far as I'm concerned, there's no coder-job that I can
> justify someone
> > who
> > > cannot communicate these days.
> > >
> > > If you have a well-defined hierarchy with enough people (IE:
> you have
> > > several coder-types underneath a manager who HAS
> communication skills &
> > > techie-skills), perhaps people with poor communication
> skills can still
> > be
> > > excellent coders, as long as they never have to get beyond
> that level OR
> > > speak coherently to someone other than their manager.
> > >
> > > I think the days of the stereotypical "IT-type hidden in the
> dark room"
> > are
> > > over. Or are beginning to be over. I think a well-rounded
> education> that
> > > includes a significant portion of liberal arts exposes a
> person on HOW
> > to
> > > learn anything & communicate effectively, which in the long-
> run makes a
> > more
> > > adaptive & effective employee.
> > >
> > > But that's just my opinion. And I certainly know CS-types
> who CAN
> > > communicate effectively. I just know plenty who can't. A
> good liberal
> > arts
> > > major can learn ANYTHING. A significantly-focused
> engineering-type
> > degree
> > > teaches the person ONE thing very well, but nothing else.
> > >
> > > My dos pesos.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dana Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:12 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> > >
> > >
> > > to personal development. but to ability ot do the job?
> > >
> > > Dana
> > >
> > > Josh Remus writes:
> > >
> > > > I have a great degree in General Studies. I was
> originally a music
> > > major,
> > > > switched to CS, dropped out of school, and that was the
> only degree
> > I
> > > could
> > > > go back and complete in reasonable time.
> > > >
> > > > However - having said that - except for specific
> engineering-type
> > jobs
> > > > (which I don't considering cf-coding, in general), I
> think a
> > > well-rounded
> > > > humanities/arts degree means much more than a CS one.
> > > >
> > > > Not to start a flame war. I know too many CS/CE-types
> who have no
> > > ability
> > > > to communicate in any medium.
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Matthew Small [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:49 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would like to know how many people on the list
> actually have a
> > > CS/MIS
> > > > degree.
> > > >
> > > > I do.
> > > >
> > > > - Matt Small
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Dana Tierney
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:37 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, I will concede that the SQl class was helpful.
> And despite
> > the
> > > focus
> > > > on
> > > > PASCAL in comp sci 1 and 2, I learned a lot about
> programming> per
> > > se.
> > > > But
> > > > whether I could have learned the same material
> without being
> > present
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > classroom from 10 to 11 on Tuesdays and Thursdays is
> what I am
> > > > questioning.
> > > > I think so...
> > > >
> > > > Dana
> > > >
> > > > Dana
> > > >
> > > > Jeffry Houser writes:
> > > >
> > > > > If the classes you took focused on a language, I can
> > understand
> > > how
> > > > they
> > > > > may not be applicable to web development. But, a good
> > curriculum
> > > will
> > > > > concentrate on theory. I apply programming theory
> every day.
> > I'm
> > > > sure
> > > > > that many will agree that to get anywhere when
> building> dynamic
> > > web
> > > > pages
> > > > > you need to know something about database design.
> > > > >
> > > > > At 01:05 AM 10/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
[Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
