We're talking real ugly places here.

:)

larry

At 04:03 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote:
>I'll pony up the cash....  You're talking to an ex-Marine here.  :-)
>
>Matt Small
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Larry C. Lyons
>   To: CF-Community
>   Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>
>   NO I am saying that the vast majority of the border is secured and those
>   areas that are not are typically very difficult to walk across. Look at
> the
>   border in Northwestern Ontario. That's mainly swamp, trees and lakes. Also
>   while they do not advertise it, even in these areas they are placing
>   electronic sensors etc to detect intrusions.
>
>   As for my assumption, if you're willing to pay for it, I can take you to
>   some places along the border, and I'd love to see you traverse it. I'll
>   even hold onto the rope to haul you out when you go in over your head.
>
>   larry
>
>   At 02:54 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote:
>   >I thought Tim already did that. Do I need to find a thousand more
>   >instances or will his do?  I distinctly remember that instance as the US
>   >was worried that an attack would happen on the new millenium eve, and in
>   >fact that's what I was thinking of when I wrote it.  After 911, there was
>   >a lot of talk that terrorists would come into the US from Canada.  I
> don't
>   >know where this intelligence came from, but it was in the nightly
>   >news.  I'm not making up lies, there's at least this one instance and I'm
>   >sure there are more.
>   >
>   >You're saying that the entire 3000+ mile border between the US and Canada
>   >is entirely unnavigable by foot?  OK, that's ridiculous  - you're making
>   >assertions that are unfounded.  I'm sure you haven't been along the
> entire
>   >length of the border.  My assumption that it is possible to traverse the
>   >border in an unattended area somewhere is far more plausible than your
>   >assumption that it's not.
>   >
>   >- Matt Small
>   >
>   >
>   >----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Larry C. Lyons
>   >   To: CF-Community
>   >   Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:32 PM
>   >   Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >
>   >   The please show this so-called documentation, just don't make
> assertions
>   >   about it. Just saying its so doesn't make it true.
>   >
>   >   I take it you've never been to the border, yes there are areas
> where it is
>   >   difficult to patrol, for very good reason, its swamp and rock. Its not
>   >   something where you can just stroll through. Even the locals in these
>   >   places would not try to go through the areas. I know I spent a lot
> of time
>   >   as a kid in northwestern Ontario very close to the border. It went
> through
>   >   areas where you don't want to go through, unless you have no qualms
> about
>   >   being up to your neck in swamp and bog.
>   >
>   >   larry
>   >
>   >   At 12:15 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote:
>   >   >Excuse me, I meant that Middle-Eastern Terrorists are known to
> come into
>   >   >the US via Canada. This was publicized on national news shows
> after 911.
>   >   >Gosh, with this kind of story, if I were a terrorist, I would go
> through
>   >   >Canada - why would I even take the chance on being taken in at US
> Customs
>   >   >only to be deported and tortured?  The fact that it has a HUGE
>   > unpatrolled
>   >   >border with the US makes it a prime entry target.   Whether or not you
>   >   >believe it that is a matter of personal choice.  I'm sure there's
>   >   >documentation on it where it did happen as well your documentation
> below.
>   >   >
>   >   >- Matthew Small
>   >   >
>   >   >----- Original Message -----
>   >   >   From: Dharmesh Goel
>   >   >   To: CF-Community
>   >   >   Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:49 AM
>   >   >   Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >   >
>   >   >   Hi Mathew,
>   >   >
>   >   >   I strongly disagree with
>   >   >
>   >   >   "The publicized fact that is that Middle-Easterners are known
> to come
>   >   > into the US via Canada."
>   >   >
>   >   >   This is a case of if a lie is told over and over again, people will
>   >   > start believing it. The last time I checked, borders are manned and
>   >   > controlled by US Immigration and customs at points of entry.
>   >   >
>   >   >   Here is a discussion on this:
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   ><http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/documents/030211_blamecanada_buchanan.html>http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/documents/030211_blamecanada_buchanan.html
>   >   >
>   >   >   Another article:
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   ><http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/01/19/fObserver172.raw.html>http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/01/19/fObserver172.raw.html
>   >   >
>   >   >   Tons of discussion on this topic out there in cyberspace.
>   >   >
>   >   >   Some excerpts
>   >   >   ------------------------
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: I'm sure you remember this whole incident over the New
>   > Year
>   >   > period, where there was this alert that there were five men in the
>   > United
>   >   > States.
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Mm hmm.
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: And reports were that they had come from Canada,
> somehow
>   >   > related to terrorism.
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: And it was a hoax.
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: And it was a hoax.
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Right.
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: So, what do you make of that?
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Well it was a hoax but [laugh] they probably felt that
>   >   > because it was from Canada it would be believed, is my guess.
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: Well is that fair?
>   >   >
>   >   >   ------------------------
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: -you've got a situation in this country where you
> had 19
>   >   > hijackers coming through the front door, now where's the problem?
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Well it -Look the- Clearly the United States is the
> target.
>   >   > And they come into our airports, they come through Canada, they come
>   >   > through Mexico, so let's tighten-
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: Well they- who comes through Canada?
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Well- Look. We've already been over this, but-
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: Who comes through Canada though? Has there been an
>   > incident
>   >   > with somebody who comes through-
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: Well there are many terrorists as you know, so,
> [laugh] that
>   >   > have been sitting there almost operating freely-
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: Well-
>   >   >
>   >   >   BUCHANAN: -up in Canada.
>   >   >
>   >   >   DISCLOSURE: Well so you say, but where's the terrorist incidents?
>   >   >   ---------------------
>   >   >
>   >   >   Dharmesh
>   >   >
>   >   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   >   From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   >   >   Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:38 PM
>   >   >   To: CF-Community
>   >   >   Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >   >
>   >   >   The publicized fact that is that Middle-Easterners are known to
> come
>   >   > into the US via Canada.  This is a suspicious situation, plain and
>   >   > simple.  I didn't agree with the fact that he was tortured or
>   >   > deported.  I said it was suspicious and I believe the right thing
> to do
>   >   > is to question further. You don't have to give me one, the one
> taints
>   > the
>   >   > other two.  I don't like a lot of things going on with this kind of
>   >   > interrogation, but they were right on the money in detaining him for
>   >   > further questioning.  Bigoted?  How about realistic.  Lots of people
>   > have
>   >   > been "further questioned" for far less, including myself.  I'm a
> young
>   >   > white southern male.
>   >   >
>   >   >   - Matt Small
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >     ----- Original Message -----
>   >   >     From: Raymond Camden
>   >   >     To: CF-Community
>   >   >     Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:37 PM
>   >   >     Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >   >
>   >   >     Wow, so you listed 3 facts:
>   >   >
>   >   >     1) A middle-easterner living in Canada.
>   >   >
>   >   >     So, is Canada just a bunch of white guys?
>   >   >
>   >   >     2) Coming back from a Middle-Eastern country.
>   >   >
>   >   >     So all Middle-Eastern countries are under suspicion now?
>   >   >
>   >   >     3) Known contact with a terrorist.
>   >   >
>   >   >     Wasn't he a suspected, not proven terrorist? Wasn't the
> contact from
>   >   >     years ago? I can maybe give you this one, but the other two are
>   > simply
>   >   >     wrong. Bigoted at worst.
>   >   >
>   >   >     -rc
>   >   >
>   >   >     > -----Original Message-----
>   >   >     > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   >   >     > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:40 AM
>   >   >     > To: CF-Community
>   >   >     > Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     > A Middle-Easterner living in Canada, coming back from a
>   >   >     > Middle-Eastern country, known contact with Middle-Eastern
>   >   >     > terrorists.  That's suspicious.  I didn't say guilty, I said
>   >   >     > suspicious.
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     > - Matt Small
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   >     >   From: Raymond Camden
>   >   >     >   To: CF-Community
>   >   >     >   Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:22 PM
>   >   >     >   Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >   > I don't agree with the torture and deportation...  but I
>   >   >     >   > stand by the fact that it's a very suspicious scene.
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >   Why? You said he was middle eastern flying from a islamic
>   >   >     > country. Is
>   >   >     >   that something rare? Doesn't this happen thousands of times
>   >   >     > a day? Is it
>   >   >     >   suspicious to fly home?
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >   -ray
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >
>   >   >     >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >----------
>   >   >[
>   >
>   >----------
>   >[
>
>----------
>[
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