- Matt Small
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Griefer
To: CF-Community
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
Heya Ben:
Actually that was said with a hint of sarcasm (what? you couldn't hear it?) : )
Unfortunately, that's the way it was in my house. We just weren't very religious...and it was fairly early on that Chanukah 'degenerated' into a simple gift exchange with no ceremony attached to it...and ultimately into nothing at all.
Today, I consider myself a non-practicing Jew. I'm married to a wonderful Lutheran woman, and we are raising our children Lutheran. My wife's religion was simply more important to her than mine was to me, due to the way each of us was brought up. To be honest, it's very depressing not having a religion to believe in. I don't mind at all that my daughter (and whatever children follow) are going to be raised Lutheran. I wouldn't have cared if I had fallen in love and married a Catholic or an Episcopalean or for that matter... a Jew. All that mattered (and matters) to me is that whatever religion it ended up being...that they practiced it. I don't necessarily care what they believe...but I want them to believe in *something*.
Trust me, I envy you for taking pleasure in the simple act of lighting the candles and saying the prayers (regardless of whether or not gifts were involved). I envy your children for having had those principles instilled in them (and commend you for doing so). I'm going to try and do the same for my children. Wish me luck : )
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Braver
To: CF-Community
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:38 PM
Subject: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
Oh, Charlie, do I ever disagree with you on this:
"No reason to light the menorah and say a prayer if there were no presents to open", you say?
*NOT*
My young-adult kids even asked a couple of years ago that I not go overboard trying to fill up 8 days with presents.
We say the blessings and light the menorah whether we have presents or not. I love to sit and watch the candles. Yes, sometimes we skip a night due to some of the schedule conflicts this time of year, but not because there are no gifts for that night...
YMMV.
-Ben
> my take on #10...
>
> kids will always get their xmas presents...
> but on any given night of Chanukah, a parent reserves the right to
> withhold presents (or at least to threaten to do so).
>
> Actually I was relatively young when my parents started the
> "bargaining process". As the presents I wanted became more and more
> expensive, I was told, "OK...but if you want <name of more expensive
> present here>, you can only get 5 gifts instead of 8".
>
> Eventually one gift got exchanged, the menorah gathered dust (no
> reason to light the menorah and say a prayer if there were no presents
> to open), and we all just grew up and grew jaded : )
>
> ah, youth.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben Braver
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:14 AM
> Subject: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
>
>
> Oy, Charlie, ROFLMAO bubbela !!
> Vay is meer, that was FUNNY!
> But I don't get #10 ??
> re: #12, Joseph preceded the Xmas carol saying
> "Have yourself a Mary little Christmas"
> <hohoho>
> -Ben
>
> >HOLIDAY DISTINCTIONS
> >
> >1. Christmas is one day, same day every year: December 25. Jews also
> love
> >December 25th. It's another paid day off work. We go to movies and
> out for
> >Chinese food, and Israeli dancing. Chanukah is 8 days. It starts the
> evening
> >of the 24th of Kislev, whenever that falls. No one is ever sure. Jews
> never
> >know until a non-Jewish friend asks when Chanukah starts, forcing us
> to
> >consult a calendar so we don't look like idiots. We all have the
> same
> >calendar, provided free with a donation from either the World Jewish
> >Congress, the kosher butcher, or the local Sinai Memorial Chapel
> (especially
> >in Florida) or other Jewish funeral home.
> >
> >2. Christmas is a major holiday. Chanukah is a minor holiday with the
> same
> >theme as most Jewish holidays. They tried to kill us, we survived,
> let's
> >eat.
> >
> >3. Christians get wonderful presents such as jewelry, perfume,
> stereos...
> >Jews get practical presents such as underwear, socks, or the
> collected works
> >of the Rambam, which looks impressive on the bookshelf.
> >
> >4. There is only one way to spell Christmas. No one can decide how to
> spell
> >Chanukah, Chanukah, Chanukka, Channukah, Hanukah, Hannukah.
> >
> >5. Christmas is a time of great pressure for husbands and boyfriends.
> Their
> >partners expect special gifts. Jewish men are relieved of that burden.
> No
> >one expects a diamond ring on Chanukah.
> >
> >6. Christmas brings enormous electric bills. Candles are used for
> Chanukah.
> >Not only are we spared enormous electric bills, but we get to feel
> good
> >about not contributing to the energy crisis.
> >
> >7. Christmas carols are beautiful. Silent Night, Come All Ye Faithful....
>
> >Chanukah songs are about dreidels made from clay or having a party
> and
> >dancing the horah. Of course, we are secretly pleased that many of
> the
> >beautiful carols were composed and written by our tribal brethren.
> And don't
> >Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond sing them beautifully?
> >
> >8. A home preparing for Christmas smells wonderful. The sweet smell
> of
> >cookies and cakes baking. Happy people are gathered around in festive
> moods.
> >A home preparing for Chanukah smells of oil, potatoes, and onions.
> The home,
> >as always, is full of loud people all talking at once.
> >
> >9. Women have fun baking Christmas cookies. Women burn their eyes and
> cut
> >their hands grating potatoes and onions for latkas on Chanukah.
> Another
> >reminder of our suffering through the ages.
> >
> >10. Parents deliver to their children during Christmas. Jewish
> parents have
> >no qualms about withholding a gift on any of the eight nights.
> >
> >11. The players in the Christmas story have easy to pronounce names
> such as
> >Mary, Joseph, and Jesus. The players in the Chanukah story are
> Antiochus,
> >Judah Maccabee, and Matta whatever. No one can spell it or pronounce
> it. On
> >the plus side, we can tell our friends anything and they believe we
> are
> >wonderfully versed in our history.
> >
> >12. Many Christians believe in the virgin birth. Jews think, "Joseph,
>
> >Bubela, snap out of it. Your woman is pregnant, you didn't sleep with
> her,
> >and now you want to blame G-d. Here's the number of my shrink."
> >
> >13. In recent years, Christmas has become more and more
> commercialized. The
> >same holds true for Chanukah, even though it is a minor holiday. It
> makes
> >sense. How could we market a major holiday such as Yom Kippur? Forget
> about
> >celebrating. Think observing. Come to synagogue, starve yourself for
> 27
> >hours, become one with your dehydrated soul, beat your chest, confess
> your
> >sins, a guaranteed good time for you and your family. Tickets a mere
> $200
> >per person.
> >
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