>Unless your a non-religious Jew married to an Irish Catholic. In that case, Ham
>is included in everything. (A friend of mine posted her Chanukah ham recipe to
>another list)
>
>
>> You're making things to complicated.
>>
>> Ham = Christmas
>> No Ham = Chanukah.
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> Matthew Small wrote:
>>
>> >It's never too late to start practicing. It will probably bring you some
>inner peace. You should try your native faith or that of your wife and
>children. Good luck.
>> >
>> >- Matt Small
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Charlie Griefer
>> > To: CF-Community
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:00 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
>> >
>> >
>> > Heya Ben:
>> >
>> > Actually that was said with a hint of sarcasm (what? you couldn't hear
>it?) : )
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, that's the way it was in my house. We just weren't very
>religious...and it was fairly early on that Chanukah 'degenerated' into a simple
>gift exchange with no ceremony attached to it...and ultimately into nothing at
>all.
>> >
>> > Today, I consider myself a non-practicing Jew. I'm married to a wonderful
>Lutheran woman, and we are raising our children Lutheran. My wife's religion
>was simply more important to her than mine was to me, due to the way each of us
>was brought up. To be honest, it's very depressing not having a religion to
>believe in. I don't mind at all that my daughter (and whatever children follow)
>are going to be raised Lutheran. I wouldn't have cared if I had fallen in love
>and married a Catholic or an Episcopalean or for that matter... a Jew. All that
>mattered (and matters) to me is that whatever religion it ended up being...that
>they practiced it. I don't necessarily care what they believe...but I want them
>to believe in *something*.
>> >
>> > Trust me, I envy you for taking pleasure in the simple act of lighting the
>candles and saying the prayers (regardless of whether or not gifts were
>involved). I envy your children for having had those principles instilled in
>them (and commend you for doing so). I'm going to try and do the same for my
>children. Wish me luck : )
>> >
>> > Charlie
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Ben Braver
>> > To: CF-Community
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:38 PM
>> > Subject: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
>> >
>> > Oh, Charlie, do I ever disagree with you on this:
>> >
>> > "No reason to light the menorah and say a prayer if there were no
>presents to open", you say?
>> >
>> > *NOT*
>> >
>> > My young-adult kids even asked a couple of years ago that I not go
>overboard trying to fill up 8 days with presents.
>> >
>> > We say the blessings and light the menorah whether we have presents or
>not. I love to sit and watch the candles. Yes, sometimes we skip a night due to
>some of the schedule conflicts this time of year, but not because there are no
>gifts for that night...
>> >
>> > YMMV.
>> >
>> > -Ben
>> >
>> > > my take on #10...
>> > >
>> > > kids will always get their xmas presents...
>> > > but on any given night of Chanukah, a parent reserves the right to
>> > > withhold presents (or at least to threaten to do so).
>> > >
>> > > Actually I was relatively young when my parents started the
>> > > "bargaining process". As the presents I wanted became more and more
>> > > expensive, I was told, "OK...but if you want <name of more expensive
>> > > present here>, you can only get 5 gifts instead of 8".
>> > >
>> > > Eventually one gift got exchanged, the menorah gathered dust (no
>> > > reason to light the menorah and say a prayer if there were no presents
>> > > to open), and we all just grew up and grew jaded : )
>> > >
>> > > ah, youth.
>> > >
>> >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> > > From: Ben Braver
>> >
>> > > To: CF-Community
>> >
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:14 AM
>> >
>> > > Subject: Re:distinctions between xmas and chanukah
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Oy, Charlie, ROFLMAO bubbela !!
>> >
>> > > Vay is meer, that was FUNNY!
>> >
>> > > But I don't get #10 ??
>> >
>> > > re: #12, Joseph preceded the Xmas carol saying
>> >
>> > > "Have yourself a Mary little Christmas"
>> >
>> > > <hohoho>
>> >
>> > > -Ben
>> > >
>> >
>> > > >HOLIDAY DISTINCTIONS
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >1. Christmas is one day, same day every year: December 25. Jews also
>> > > love
>> >
>> > > >December 25th. It's another paid day off work. We go to movies and
>> > > out for
>> >
>> > > >Chinese food, and Israeli dancing. Chanukah is 8 days. It starts the
>> > > evening
>> >
>> > > >of the 24th of Kislev, whenever that falls. No one is ever sure. Jews
>> > > never
>> >
>> > > >know until a non-Jewish friend asks when Chanukah starts, forcing us
>> > > to
>> >
>> > > >consult a calendar so we don't look like idiots. We all have the
>> > > same
>> >
>> > > >calendar, provided free with a donation from either the World Jewish
>> >
>> > > >Congress, the kosher butcher, or the local Sinai Memorial Chapel
>> > > (especially
>> >
>> > > >in Florida) or other Jewish funeral home.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >2. Christmas is a major holiday. Chanukah is a minor holiday with the
>> > > same
>> >
>> > > >theme as most Jewish holidays. They tried to kill us, we survived,
>> > > let's
>> >
>> > > >eat.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >3. Christians get wonderful presents such as jewelry, perfume,
>> > > stereos...
>> >
>> > > >Jews get practical presents such as underwear, socks, or the
>> > > collected works
>> >
>> > > >of the Rambam, which looks impressive on the bookshelf.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >4. There is only one way to spell Christmas. No one can decide how to
>> > > spell
>> >
>> > > >Chanukah, Chanukah, Chanukka, Channukah, Hanukah, Hannukah.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >5. Christmas is a time of great pressure for husbands and boyfriends.
>> > > Their
>> >
>> > > >partners expect special gifts. Jewish men are relieved of that burden.
>> > > No
>> >
>> > > >one expects a diamond ring on Chanukah.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >6. Christmas brings enormous electric bills. Candles are used for
>> > > Chanukah.
>> >
>> > > >Not only are we spared enormous electric bills, but we get to feel
>> > > good
>> >
>> > > >about not contributing to the energy crisis.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >7. Christmas carols are beautiful. Silent Night, Come All Ye
>Faithful....
>> > >
>> >
>> > > >Chanukah songs are about dreidels made from clay or having a party
>> > > and
>> >
>> > > >dancing the horah. Of course, we are secretly pleased that many of
>> > > the
>> >
>> > > >beautiful carols were composed and written by our tribal brethren.
>> > > And don't
>> >
>> > > >Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond sing them beautifully?
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >8. A home preparing for Christmas smells wonderful. The sweet smell
>> > > of
>> >
>> > > >cookies and cakes baking. Happy people are gathered around in festive
>> > > moods.
>> >
>> > > >A home preparing for Chanukah smells of oil, potatoes, and onions.
>> > > The home,
>> >
>> > > >as always, is full of loud people all talking at once.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >9. Women have fun baking Christmas cookies. Women burn their eyes and
>> > > cut
>> >
>> > > >their hands grating potatoes and onions for latkas on Chanukah.
>> > > Another
>> >
>> > > >reminder of our suffering through the ages.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >10. Parents deliver to their children during Christmas. Jewish
>> > > parents have
>> >
>> > > >no qualms about withholding a gift on any of the eight nights.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >11. The players in the Christmas story have easy to pronounce names
>> > > such as
>> >
>> > > >Mary, Joseph, and Jesus. The players in the Chanukah story are
>> > > Antiochus,
>> >
>> > > >Judah Maccabee, and Matta whatever. No one can spell it or pronounce
>> > > it. On
>> >
>> > > >the plus side, we can tell our friends anything and they believe we
>> > > are
>> >
>> > > >wonderfully versed in our history.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >12. Many Christians believe in the virgin birth. Jews think, "Joseph,
>> > >
>> >
>> > > >Bubela, snap out of it. Your woman is pregnant, you didn't sleep with
>> > > her,
>> >
>> > > >and now you want to blame G-d. Here's the number of my shrink."
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > > >13. In recent years, Christmas has become more and more
>> > > commercialized. The
>> >
>> > > >same holds true for Chanukah, even though it is a minor holiday. It
>> > > makes
>> >
>> > > >sense. How could we market a major holiday such as Yom Kippur? Forget
>> > > about
>> >
>> > > >celebrating. Think observing. Come to synagogue, starve yourself for
>> > > 27
>> >
>> > > >hours, become one with your dehydrated soul, beat your chest, confess
>> > > your
>> >
>> > > >sins, a guaranteed good time for you and your family. Tickets a mere
>> > > $200
>> >
>> > > >per person.
>> >
>> > > >
>> >
>> >
>>
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