> -----Original Message-----
> From: Angel Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:48 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Nice people....
>
>
> We aren't talking about recent times though are we?
> We are talking about America's History, when the nation was
> being built. I also wasn't attempting to 'compare' degrees of
> brutality, or to say that other nations have not had brutal
> histories. I was trying to point out that indeed America was
> not exempt from this period of brutality as implied by John Stanley.
No you were not, but you were implying that the US was exceptional, and its
behavior was excessive. I was pointing out that the US not only not
exceptional, but in comparison was quite mild. Contrast the US's conquest of
the West to the comparative Russian conquest of Chechnya, Georgia or the
Trans-Caucus region, or what Belgium did to the Congo or Holland did to
what's now Indonesia.
>
> The settling and subsequent formation of the United States of
> America was brutal.
Not by any comparison to what the Boers did to the other African tribes when
they moved into the Transvaal region.
>
> According to America, isn't Iraq now going through a major
> process of 'nation building' ?
A very different process, the US expects to leave Iraq eventually.
Has there been any deliberate or planned massacres by US forces in Iraq.
Have they lined up all the men and boys of Falluga and shot them and then
raped the women? There has been plenty of incidents like that in Chechnya
over the last 3 years. Compared to what's been occurring in the Sudan, or in
Uganda, the Congo, the Central African Republic or Syria.
Look up references to the town Hama in Syria. In the 1970's there was an
attempted coup in Syria that was centered in Hama. The father of the current
Syrian president surrounded the town with loyalist elements of the army and
when they were done there was only rubble and bodies left. Over 15,000
innocent civilians were murdered.
The behavior of the US is a damned sight better than most other nations. Its
been more humane and respectful of the locals and of human rights in
general. Look at the Indonesian conquest of Timor in 1975, about a quarter
of the civilian population were killed over the next five years. Then when
Timor gained its independence 4 years ago, "Unofficial" and "Independent"
militias (that were created equipped and controlled by the Indonesian
government), tried to do the same. It wasn't until a rapid reaction force
sent by Australia was the slaughter prevented.
Another case in point Rwanda. Or Bosnia, or Kosovo...
During the Vietnam war there were atrocities committed by American soldiers.
There were at least 100 times as many committed by the Viet Cong and the
North Vietnamese Army.
Look at the atrocities committed during the Chinese cultural revolution.
Need I go on.
While I strongly disagree with going into Iraq, the behavior of American
forces there has been exemplary.
>
> The Arawaks were wiped out by the Colonial powers.
> The Caribs , the more warlike tribe of the Amerindians,
> survive to this day in Dominica and in Trinidad. My
> girlfriend is a direct descendent of the Dominican Caribs.
> And yes, that temper and warlike-ness is genetic.
No it is by no means genetic. Its more cultural and environmental. Please
don't try a genetic or socio-biological argument with me, I think I may know
a bit more about the field than you. There is no current reliable scientific
data that suggests that violent behavior is genetically based, or if there
is, then it only accounts for a very small proportion of the explained
variance.
larry
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