Out of all the editors so far, Dreamweaver has proven to be the best. I
know that Microsoft uses Homesite to do their website. They have over
500,000 documents and to think that Frontpage could handle that is a joke.
That is nice that you clarified your distinction about professionals and the
tools they use. Yes, GoLive makes a mess of things too. Netobject's Fusion
is one of the worse. But just because you use a tool like Dreamweaver does
not mean that you are clueless. I too will not install the FP extensions on
any of my servers, I can't stand the way they work and junk up a server. I
think if you had sent this post the 1st time, then your point would have
made more sense.
Chris R. Mack
Manager, Internet Strategies
Lockheed Martin Technology Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: William James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 12:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Text Editors vs Site Editors
GoLive is just as bad as FrontPage as far as proprietary comments and
markup. I've had to work with GoLive files made by customers and it took me
more time to remove all the proprietary GoLive crap than it would have taken
me to just make the whole thing myself (by hand). I didn't say that using a
WYSIWYG editor made you unprofessional, I said non of the professionals I
know use it and even ones who do can and will handcode stuff more often than
not. The point I'm making is the difference between using a WYSIWIG editor
or CF Studio to save time although you could do it in Notepad, or using a
WYSIWYG editor or Cf Studio because you can't do it by hand. The difference
between a professional and an amateur lies right there. If you can hand code
everything but use Dreamweaver to layout tables really quickly, or CF Studio
to setup Queries more efficiently, that's fine, but when you use Dreamweaver
or FrontPage because HTML looks like Chinese (unless you can read Chinese,
then maybe it looks like Russian or something), then you are by no means a
professional. I doubt the people who make adobe's site use only GoLive to
make it. I also doubt the people who make microsoft.com use
FrontPage(actually, I know they don't). I think Dreamweaver is the only
WYSIWYG editor that gets any respect and I'm sure its for good reason. My
guess (I've never used it so I don't know) is because it does stuff right.
It doesn't rely on proprietary crap to make stuff work "prettily" (and crash
my browser) like FrontPage and GoLive. I refuse to install FP extensions on
my server even. If it means less business, oh well. I've worked over a year
dealing with customers breaking their FP extensions and trying to fix it for
them. It isn't worth it. That may be Dreamweavers only saving grace (Plus
its by Macromedia who makes awesome products).
-Will
(I won't go into MS vs. Unix because its a totally fruitless debate)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mack, Chris R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 8:28 AM
Subject: RE: Text Editors vs Site Editors
> I think a lot of professionals designers use WYSIWYG editors. I use
> Dreamweaver not because I don't know html, but rather because it saves me
> time. I can layout and tweak tables much faster using Dreamweaver than I
> can in CF Studio. Dreamweaver does not leave "messy" code when doing
> straight html stuff. I mean isn't a <table> tag the same in Dreamweaver
or
> if done by hand? Frontpage is the one that has given a bad name for
WYSIWYG
> editors. It uses all kinds of proprietary comments and markup to maintain
a
> site. Just because you can do something in notepad does not mean you are
> any more professional than someone who knows the same code as you and can
do
> the same thing, but chooses to save time by going WYSIWIG. Check out
> Adobe.com. They are using their product GoLive. You think the web
> designers there are not professionals? The vi/notepad vs. WYSIWIG is just
a
> remnant of the "M$ vs UNIX" wars. I can hand code all day long, but
that's
> the problem, I have better things to do than to prove that I can layout a
> table in notepad.
>
> Chris R. Mack
> Manager, Internet Strategies
> Lockheed Martin Technology Services
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 5:47 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Text Editors vs Site Editors
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned CF Studio IS a text editor. It's just help files,
> browser, etc, all in one. I don't really see it any different than having
> notepad, ftp, IE, and some tutorial websites all open except the
convenince
> factor. I've never and will never use the Design Tab (yuck!) As for using
> text editors being out dated, I don't know a single professinla designer
who
> uses a WYSIWYG editor. For the most part, only the customers who design
> their own and constantly have problems use those (*cough* Frontpage
> *cough*). I type pretty much everything myself, but CF just nicely helps
out
> aging memories like mine :) Pus, there are always times when its easier to
> just telnet into the machine and use pico or edit to modify files. I think
> using text editors or non-WYSIWYG editors is not only not outdated but
> preferred. I can't count the number of times I've been asked "Can you hand
> code?" by places I've applied for a job. Although I almost always use CF
> Studio now, I still consider it handcoding. Plus I can always use notepad
if
> need be.
>
> -Will
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig M. Rosenblum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:18 AM
> Subject: Text Editors vs Site Editors
>
>
> > I have always been using texpad or notepad to edit and create my code,
> > because i'm of the older keyboard'n generation rather than the mouse and
> gui
> > generation....
> >
> > But it seems like being a user of text editors is so outre' (out dated)
or
> > non-conformist...
> >
> > Just out of curiousity how many of you use a text editor vs cf studio
and
> > the like?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Sheldon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:09 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: Is HomeSite Soon To Be History?
> > >
> > >
> > > What a load of hooey!
> > >
> > > Ignoring the fact that this message was a thinly-disguised
> > > advertisement for
> > > a competing product...
> > >
> > > Some of us out here actually KNOW HOW TO CODE! We don't need bloatware
> > > handholding to create high-quality sites. It's my opinion, but if you
> need
> > > this type of layout program to create websites, then you're not a
> > > programmer. You may be a designer, but you're not a programmer and
> should
> > > not be allowed to write code. Programmers actually take pride in
> > > *understanding what they are doing* instead of just connecting the
> pretty
> > > dots.
> > >
> > > I certainly don't do all of my coding in notepad, but the editors I do
> use
> > > (Homesite, CF Studio and Visual Studio) are primarily code-editors
> (First
> > > thing I do on install is disable the layout tab). Nonetheless, if
> Homesite
> > > and CF Studio were to disappear tomorrow, you'll find me happily
> > > editing in
> > > Notepad or vi.
> > >
> > > Bah, Amateurs!
> > >
> > > Michael J. Sheldon
> > > Internet Applications Developer
> > > Phone: 480.699.1084
> > > http://www.desertraven.com/
> > > PGP Key Available on Request
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ------------
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> > > _talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > > 'unsubscribe' in the body.
> > >
> >
>
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