Oh I hear ya loud and clear Charlie....been at this since Mosaic....so I can write a clean cross-browser site with my eyes closed....but ya...sometimes there's that 1 damn thing you just can't get to fly when you try to get fancy (he says thinking back to his cross-browser version 4.x DHTML invoice builder module) ;-)
Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------- Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com --------------------------------------------------------- Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder & Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Griefer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 12:22 PM Subject: Re: Crossborwser support WAS: Simple html question > Hi Bryan: > > I looked at 'tableless' design, and no...it's really not there yet. Forget > cross-browser, there were significant enough differences between IE 5.5 and > IE 6 to make it a futile effort. > > However, I don't feel that adhering to standards (in this case, W3C > standards) means being on the 'bleeding edge'. XHTML has been an official > standard for 2 years now (?). > > My point was more to the fact that if I write code that is valid (by an > approved standard), and a particular browser renders it improperly (let's > pick on Opera, since Opera does some nasty things to my site)...do I expend > the resources to create conditions/multiple pages/etc...or do I shrug it off > confident in the knowledge that I've done my part 'correctly'. > > Please don't get me wrong...I'm not one to callously think that discarding > any customer is a good thing. But after 6+ years of having to test in this > browser, that browser, this version, that version...I feel that it's time > for the browser manufacturers to be held somewhat accountable. > Again...naive/idealistic view? Perhaps. The alternative is none to > appealing, unfortunately. > > charlie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: Crossborwser support WAS: Simple html question > > > > Ya I haven't looked too closely yet at "tableless" page design yet, but I > > know some folks locally have gone full blown CSS only. > > > > Now I've seen this approach totally blow up (yes Netscape). The problem > > there was that it wasn't just a bit different between IE and NS....in NS > all > > content was crammed into 3 lines across the top of the screen!! So that's > > totallt unacceptable cross-browseer behaviour IMHO ;-) > > > > What I'd love to see is some rock solid sample code that works > cross-browser > > (noting how far back version wise) that can produce the CSS equivalent of > a > > table and nested tables...including the ability to apply styles at the > "<td> > > and <tr>" level (or equivalent in CSS). > > > > With that, I could handle a large % of what I would normally do layout > wise. > > > > Fire away ;-) > > > > Cheers > > > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > > t. 250.920.8830 > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Macromedia Associate Partner > > www.macromedia.com > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group > > Founder & Director > > www.cfug-vancouverisland.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:53 AM > > Subject: Crossborwser support WAS: Simple html question > > > > > > > You bring up something that I have debated in my head many times. How > can > > > anybody bring about better browser compliance so that it is easier to > make > > > good clean and accessible web pages. > > > > > > I have been working on a project for the last 6 months, and I'm finding > > that > > > I'm having to fall back on age old tricks and kludges to get the pages > to > > > work similar. I'm still using tables for layout because I can't get > > > divisions to do what I need them to do. Which is basically > > > multi-column/cell layout. For example, I wanted something fairly simple > > > such as this. I needed two divisions at the bottom of a larger division > > so > > > that I could have images with captions side by side. I never did figure > > out > > > how to do this in such a way that it worked properly. > > > > > > | | > > > |____________| > > > || | | > > > ||image|image| > > > ||text | | > > > |------------| > > > | | > > > -------------- > > > > > > I really like the idea of CSS and universally standard rendering of > > designs > > > so that I can make clean pages, but I'm not sure we're there yet. In my > > > darkest hours, I wonder if we are even moving that direction! > > > > > > > > > Ian Skinner > > > Web Programmer > > > BloodSource > > > Sacramento, CA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:09 AM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Re: Simple html question > > > > > > > > > Well, the 'big question' may not be that big to everybody :) > > > > > > Yes, it works in NS. Will it work in NS 4.x? I don't know. > > > > > > Personally, I don't worry about NS 4.x anymore. In my opinion, the > number > > > of users with NS 4.x is an acceptable level of loss. I can't spend > > > resources on making sure a page will render properly for a browser that > > > represents such a small % of my audience. To me, that time spent would > be > > a > > > greater loss. > > > > > > This might not be the most popular stance...but given the limited > > resources > > > that I do have to work with, my feeling is that if my code is > > > standards-compliant (by current standards), then I've done my job. Also > > > (and I'm sure this is a very naive belief), I feel that the more we, as > > Web > > > Developers, cater to each and every browser (if i do *this* then it will > > > work correctly in that browser...and add a condition here to make sure > it > > > works in *that* browser), then we give the browser companies no > motivation > > > to ensure that their products will render code 'properly'. > > > > > > I know that digresses a bit from the original comment (dealing with > older > > > browsers)...but I'm curious to know if others feel this way...and if so, > > do > > > you act on it? Or are you in a position where you don't have the option > > (or > > > desire) to discount any certain browser(s)? > > > > > > As this isn't directly related to CF, hope it's not considered > off-topic. > > > Seems that since we all develop for the Web, it would be relevant. > > > > > > Charlie > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:02 AM > > > Subject: Re: Simple html question > > > > > > > > > > and the big question...does it work in Nutscrape and if so...how far > > back? > > > > version 4.x? ;-) > > > > > > > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > > > > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > > > > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > > > > t. 250.920.8830 > > > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Macromedia Associate Partner > > > > www.macromedia.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group > > > > Founder & Director > > > > www.cfug-vancouverisland.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Andre Mohamed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:47 AM > > > > Subject: RE: Simple html question > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get smaller than 1 pixel thickness (unless you consider > > > > > dotted/dashed borders) > > > > > > > > > > <table style="border:1px solid black"> > > > > > <tr> > > > > > <td>hello world</td> > > > > > </tr> > > > > > </table> > > > > > > > > > > That's as thin as you can get (it definitely doesn't look the same > the > > > > > default border - though that depends on your browser) > > > > > > > > > > André > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: 12 August 2003 17:36 > > > > > To: CF-Talk > > > > > Subject: Simple html question > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > Just a very simple question, > > > > > is it possible to apply a style to a <table> to manipulate its > border, > > > > > border="1" is just a tab to thick for the fine layout our designer > has > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > > I tried <table style="border:1px;border-color:#000000">, but this > just > > > > > gives > > > > > the default border of one. > > > > > > > > > > Can't seem to find anything in the style editor shipped with CF > studio > > > > > 4.5, > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > j. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
