Hi Bryan: I looked at 'tableless' design, and no...it's really not there yet. Forget cross-browser, there were significant enough differences between IE 5.5 and IE 6 to make it a futile effort.
However, I don't feel that adhering to standards (in this case, W3C standards) means being on the 'bleeding edge'. XHTML has been an official standard for 2 years now (?). My point was more to the fact that if I write code that is valid (by an approved standard), and a particular browser renders it improperly (let's pick on Opera, since Opera does some nasty things to my site)...do I expend the resources to create conditions/multiple pages/etc...or do I shrug it off confident in the knowledge that I've done my part 'correctly'. Please don't get me wrong...I'm not one to callously think that discarding any customer is a good thing. But after 6+ years of having to test in this browser, that browser, this version, that version...I feel that it's time for the browser manufacturers to be held somewhat accountable. Again...naive/idealistic view? Perhaps. The alternative is none to appealing, unfortunately. charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 11:25 AM Subject: Re: Crossborwser support WAS: Simple html question > Ya I haven't looked too closely yet at "tableless" page design yet, but I > know some folks locally have gone full blown CSS only. > > Now I've seen this approach totally blow up (yes Netscape). The problem > there was that it wasn't just a bit different between IE and NS....in NS all > content was crammed into 3 lines across the top of the screen!! So that's > totallt unacceptable cross-browseer behaviour IMHO ;-) > > What I'd love to see is some rock solid sample code that works cross-browser > (noting how far back version wise) that can produce the CSS equivalent of a > table and nested tables...including the ability to apply styles at the "<td> > and <tr>" level (or equivalent in CSS). > > With that, I could handle a large % of what I would normally do layout wise. > > Fire away ;-) > > Cheers > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > t. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Macromedia Associate Partner > www.macromedia.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group > Founder & Director > www.cfug-vancouverisland.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:53 AM > Subject: Crossborwser support WAS: Simple html question > > > > You bring up something that I have debated in my head many times. How can > > anybody bring about better browser compliance so that it is easier to make > > good clean and accessible web pages. > > > > I have been working on a project for the last 6 months, and I'm finding > that > > I'm having to fall back on age old tricks and kludges to get the pages to > > work similar. I'm still using tables for layout because I can't get > > divisions to do what I need them to do. Which is basically > > multi-column/cell layout. For example, I wanted something fairly simple > > such as this. I needed two divisions at the bottom of a larger division > so > > that I could have images with captions side by side. I never did figure > out > > how to do this in such a way that it worked properly. > > > > | | > > |____________| > > || | | > > ||image|image| > > ||text | | > > |------------| > > | | > > -------------- > > > > I really like the idea of CSS and universally standard rendering of > designs > > so that I can make clean pages, but I'm not sure we're there yet. In my > > darkest hours, I wonder if we are even moving that direction! > > > > > > Ian Skinner > > Web Programmer > > BloodSource > > Sacramento, CA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:09 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Simple html question > > > > > > Well, the 'big question' may not be that big to everybody :) > > > > Yes, it works in NS. Will it work in NS 4.x? I don't know. > > > > Personally, I don't worry about NS 4.x anymore. In my opinion, the number > > of users with NS 4.x is an acceptable level of loss. I can't spend > > resources on making sure a page will render properly for a browser that > > represents such a small % of my audience. To me, that time spent would be > a > > greater loss. > > > > This might not be the most popular stance...but given the limited > resources > > that I do have to work with, my feeling is that if my code is > > standards-compliant (by current standards), then I've done my job. Also > > (and I'm sure this is a very naive belief), I feel that the more we, as > Web > > Developers, cater to each and every browser (if i do *this* then it will > > work correctly in that browser...and add a condition here to make sure it > > works in *that* browser), then we give the browser companies no motivation > > to ensure that their products will render code 'properly'. > > > > I know that digresses a bit from the original comment (dealing with older > > browsers)...but I'm curious to know if others feel this way...and if so, > do > > you act on it? Or are you in a position where you don't have the option > (or > > desire) to discount any certain browser(s)? > > > > As this isn't directly related to CF, hope it's not considered off-topic. > > Seems that since we all develop for the Web, it would be relevant. > > > > Charlie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:02 AM > > Subject: Re: Simple html question > > > > > > > and the big question...does it work in Nutscrape and if so...how far > back? > > > version 4.x? ;-) > > > > > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > > > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > > > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > > > t. 250.920.8830 > > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > Macromedia Associate Partner > > > www.macromedia.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group > > > Founder & Director > > > www.cfug-vancouverisland.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Andre Mohamed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:47 AM > > > Subject: RE: Simple html question > > > > > > > > > > You can't get smaller than 1 pixel thickness (unless you consider > > > > dotted/dashed borders) > > > > > > > > <table style="border:1px solid black"> > > > > <tr> > > > > <td>hello world</td> > > > > </tr> > > > > </table> > > > > > > > > That's as thin as you can get (it definitely doesn't look the same the > > > > default border - though that depends on your browser) > > > > > > > > André > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: 12 August 2003 17:36 > > > > To: CF-Talk > > > > Subject: Simple html question > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Just a very simple question, > > > > is it possible to apply a style to a <table> to manipulate its border, > > > > border="1" is just a tab to thick for the fine layout our designer has > > > > done. > > > > > > > > I tried <table style="border:1px;border-color:#000000">, but this just > > > > gives > > > > the default border of one. > > > > > > > > Can't seem to find anything in the style editor shipped with CF studio > > > > 4.5, > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > j. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
