particular post because it seems Sean has caught the most heat for his
opinion on the products whether they are bias or not.
I had some issues getting first setup with the He3, I had been forced to
use the Eclipse plugin install method instead of the ".exe" install.
(Which was not easy as well) Seems the installer is having issues
finding the Java that I have installed on my Win XP. Oh well, all for
the best.
With that said, I also have the latest version of CFEclipse installed.
That's right, both He3 and CFEclipse are complimenting each other with
different features. For instance I use the Perspectives and MachII
editor of He3 while editing my CFC and CFM files in the CFE. The
insight for the tags is pulled from CFE.
So if any one wants to download a zipped up version of what I got to use
as their IDE please drop me an email and I will provide a way for you to
download it.
FAMOUS LINE
"Can't we all just get along?" LOL
Thanks,
Jason L. West, Sr.
Internet Application Specialist, Sr.
Sean Corfield wrote on 7/15/2004, 02:02:
> > Wrong. CFE has always had a cfml perspective.
>
> That was pointed out in the comments on that blog entry (which is why
> I specifically mentioned the comments were interesting). It isn't the
> default perspective after installing CFE and, unless you're familiar
> with the way Eclipse works, it isn't obvious how to change that at
> first. Quoting from one of my posts in the comments:
>
> "OK, I found the CFML perspective in CFEclipse. Yes, that makes the
> workspace much better since it surfaces the snip tree view and the CFC
> methods view."
>
> > That is just plain non-sense. First you can just close the view if you
> > want - making it a "cleaner" (read less work put into it) interface.
>
> Again, assuming you are familiar enough with how Eclipse works. It's
> obvious how to minimize / maximize views but not obvious at first how
> to makes views go away altogether (or how to restore them later). Yes,
> I figured it out after a while but this all goes to how Eclipse + CFE
> behaves out of the box vs how He3 behaves out of the box - CFE relies
> on users knowing a fair bit about Eclipse, He3 doesn't (or at least
> doesn't rely as much on it). A lot of CFers who've tried Eclipse say
> they don't like how complex it is (or appears to be) - it definitely
> takes some getting used to.
>
> > CFEclipse has preferences - it always has.
>
> Again, read the comments where Spike points out how to find the CFE
> prefs and I respond "Preferences. Thanx. I was looking for a dedicated
> CFEclipse preference section (like He3 has) so I didn't notice that. I
> can now set the insight delay to match what I have on He3!". It's
> another Eclipse complexity that is just easier to find in He3.
>
> > Again this is silly - it's one line of code - a good thing about cfe
> > is that it does number coloring?! Do you even write cf code Sean?
>
> Er, yeah, quite a bit actually... So even when I praise CFE (it's
> color-coding is better than He3's) I still get flamed? The comparison
> needs revisiting when He3 have fixed their color-coding of course but
> right now it's much easier to read code in CFE.
>
> > There are key bindings that go with those that, of course, but you
> > didn't even look for them (because they are with all the other key
> > bindings in Eclipse)
>
> Right, so not knowing Eclipse, I wouldn't know where to look - if CFE
> had all its prefs in one place in a separate prefs group, I'd probably
> have found that and been happier. Having said that, I don't use
> shortcuts for snippets anyway in DW (set it up, tried it, found I was
> still usually quicker at just typing code instead of typing a mixture
> of code and special keystrokes... years of writing code with 'vi' is
> to blame for that I suspect).
>
> > date inserter that inserts the date to where your cursor is in the file
>
> Er, I never insert the date into a file... Why would I need to?
>
> > Can anyone say re-invent the wheel? There are at least 2 other plug
> > ins for eclipse that do just that.
>
> Ease of use - He3 bundles a bunch of useful stuff that works well
> together whereas you're recommending that I spend time locating
> plugins and evaluating them to see which one suits me best. Again,
> it's the Eclipse-is-complex-and-I-need-to-learn-it-to-be-productive
> thing. If I can be productive without spending a lot of time and
> effort 'building' my IDE, I'm going to be happier.
>
> > So you advocate duplication of effort - grand.
> > You really like that the *CFML* focused he3 authors spend their
> > time making regex views - okey dokey.
>
> I don't care if *they* have to duplicate effort if it helps me expend
> less effort. I don't want my IDE to be a pain to set up right and I
> don't want to have to go out to a bunch of sites and review endless
> extensions etc just to get something that another IDE has already.
>
> Even with DW, I only have two extensions installed - a TOC generator
> and, more recently, a CFC bean wizard. I've been using DW for years
> and only accrued those two. I guess I'm just not into customizing my
> IDE like some folks.
>
> > And again, should your CFML editor be good at CFML or
> > Fusebox XML?
>
> Obviously I'd prefer it be good at both :)
>
> > While we are planning on framework support, don't you
> > think it makes more sense to have a fusebox or mach-ii plug in?
>
> No. I want it built-in. See above. I'm a lazy ass when it comes to my
> IDE! :)
>
> > Some people don't care about fusebox or mach-ii, and
> > architecturally it doesn't belong in the core of CFML tools - it goes
> > a layer above it.
>
> For me, Mach II support is *core* for my CFML IDE. HomeSite+ lets you
> import a DTD and provides code assist against it. So does DW. He3 goes
> a couple of steps beyond that and, for me, that's a very important
> advantage.
>
> > However, I am more saddened that you seem so
> > biased, and obviously didn't even give cfeclipse a real try.
>
> I've given it several tries so far and will keep trying it. As I
> pointed out in my response to Spike, it's really hard to use an IDE
> "for real" when it eats up CPU and chokes your machine :( It's not
> like I've uninstalled CFE or anything...
>
> > I wouldn't mind if you didn't like it for real reason
>
> My reasons are real enough but different people are going to have
> different reasons for liking or disliking a given IDE. I mean, take
> HomeSite+ / CFS - I really, really don't like it. I tried. On and off
> for years, I've tried. I've always preferred DW - even before I joined
> Macromedia I preferred DW as an HTML editor to HS. Since joining MM
> I've tried every version of CFS and HS+ released since mid-2000 and,
> sorry, still don't like it. I still have it installed (even on a Mac -
> one of my reasons for buying Virtual PC was to run HS and CF5 for
> 'reference'). Remember, I switched from DWMX to jEdit (because DWMX
> was s-l-o-w) but I didn't exactly fall in love with jEdit even tho' I
> preferred it to Eclipse. I switched back to DWMX when the updater
> fixed the performance issues.
>
> > I know you are hommies with the he3 gals, but man...
>
> So you think. In fact, Matt's only recently come off my "blocked
> buddies" list on IM and, apart from a meeting up at a cat show in
> Omaha in February, I've hardly spoken to Rish since he left MM the
> best part of two years ago. Also both of them went to do work for New
> Atlanta which isn't exactly going to make "hommies" with anyone at
> Macromedia! :)
>
> In the meantime I've chatted with Spike quite a bit in IM and email
> about a wide variety of things and I'd have considered him more of a
> "hommie"...
>
> I think it's going to be very interesting to see how both He3 and CFE
> develop. There's clearly a lot of interest in both within the CF
> community and I'm sure we'll lots of opinions on both sides...
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