Scott..
That's number 3 J From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 10:42 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. It's apples for oranges really, but the point I was trying to make is whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? (ie Barry Beattie comes to mind a lot when I think of this). I could really go to town on this but I think I'm overstepping my boundaries as be clear, I'm Microsoft and can't speak my mind on this one topic. Suffice to say the following: * There is lack of maturity in the local CF ranks. Most of the ranking officers/generals in ANZ are either in management roles or in other languages (Java, .NET etc). This is really bad, as whom are mentoring the Juniors? and more importantly what are they teaching them? * There is lack of marketing spend. This doesn't have to be billboards, events, rally points if you will are marketing amongst other means. We had really small budget to market Silverlight with last year, we made it scale and that product was zero install in January last year. * There is lack of diversity. Folks, we are never one brand and i encourage you all to consider going beyond your comfort zones. There is a large IT world out there whom will not award you points for being 100% loyal to one brand. Allow yourself to be around other communities whom may not like your technology preferences, but i guarantee you, they will respect you as professional for looking at theres. Diversity is key, as it forms relationship and fosters various adoption lifecyles that benefit all. If you're not getting the numbers you need with a UG, look at merging or colloborating with others. People donate 1-2hrs of their personal time to attend these, make them feel its an investment, not a chore. * The old days are gone. Who cares what happened in the last 3-5 years. What people care about is what's happening in the next 3-5 years. Cynergy Systems for example, told me last year at MIX07 in Vegas "we're announcing our support of Silverlight" and they did so because they believed in our roadmap and our vision for the future. I have countless more stories like this, roadmaps are currency as todays' technology weakness is tomorrow's strength. I won't preach at you, but ask yourself a simple question, where do you see Coldfusion heading in 3-5 years? not just the server itself but the surrounding ecosystem. * There is lack of rapid prototyping. Rapid prototyping is something more and more companies are looking for daily. if you can't produce a solution in minimal time, whilst your competitor can, weigh up what you're doing and why you are doing it that way. Broaden your horizons and understand that it's not about quality, it's mostly about quantity. Ruby On Rails, can be the most awful solution known to man in the wrong hands, and it sadly does end up in the wrong hands a lot, but the reason why it had a nice amount of run on the boards was simply because it empowered engineers to pump out solutions rapidly. * There is lack of community spirit. Go to a CFUG? what value does one get? It's an open ended question. If all folks get is to see a video or presentation they can view online anyway then what value are you adding to peoples lives. Whom are you inviting to speak and what value are they offering? Are you talking to the same people? Is debating on CFAussie really the right place to do so? and so on... where is your aggregation point for the CF virgin out there? how does one sound a bell and all flock to a single rally point and what is that rally point? CF locally "is" or "isn't" on the decline really is not the argument here. Assume for this exercise it is, say there entire system is about to crumble and FUD is based of truth. Now what would you do differently to change that and how would you execute it? I say this as we assume .NET is losing numbers daily and we expect it to grow by 20% each year and that's what we do, we work hard to make it grow year on year. We never relax as being successful is really easy, staying successful, now that is truly an art. When I joined the CF Community many years ago, CFUG.org.au for one was my entrance, the people I meet throughout my career have been remarkable and have been close friends. I have a lot of good and bad stories to tell around this language and I'll be honest, it's something I hope to instill into the Silverlight/WPF community world-wide going forward. I understood what makes a technology community great, and it wasn't brand worship or individuals within Macromedia/Adobe we should worship, it was more the people around the brand/company. Folks you looked up to and respected because they knew xyz feature better than any and would drop what they were doing to educate you on it. Anyway, enough my nostalgia, fact is there is a lot of weaknesses in Coldfusion right now and seeing a lot jobs for CF is one thing, seeing a lot of the same jobs a month later is equally as bad as not seeing jobs for Coldfusion. There's a distinction in quality vs quantity there. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 8:09 AM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No offence Peter & Charlie, But you are both non Australians, and here in Australia the job market is nonexistent and has been that way for 5 years. The point I made to Sean was simple, if the sales of Coldfusion is stronger than ever before. Why are the jobs for Coldfusion not increasing? And since that discussion nothing has changed. The perception is still the same, now whether we get out there more and promote the product is not the issue. But whether Adobe get out there and help us out more on this issue as well. But till there is a market shift in more jobs, this could be discussed for the next 5 years and that's when I want to see more jobs for Coldfusion developers. But right now what incentive is a prospective Coldfusion developer have if there is no job for him/her to go too? Same words, same argument only 5 years later. Andrew Scott From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of charlie arehart Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 3:19 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Good on ya, Pete. :-) And good point about how more may be being done than is recognized. We clearly have a large hill to climb, and it may seem like we're making no progress. Good to point out that there are indeed some efforts underway. /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bell Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 1:11 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? And as mentioned when this came up on another list recently, I think people do evangelize outside the community. In the last year I presented at ooPSLA '07 in Montreal, the Domain Specific Modeling Forum, the British Computer Society Software Practices Advancement group and Code Generation 2007. In each case there are some pretty influential developers and in each case I mention the language I use and why I choose it over Python, PHP, Ruby, C# or Java. Of course, the thing about evangelizing outside of the community is that nobody within the community knows when it's being done! Also Dan Wilson is doing great stuff on DZone and Kay S on SitePoint getting the ColdFusion word out, so it's getting there . . . Best Wishes, Peter <br --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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