Re: [CFCDev] Xaml vs Mxml

[Peter Hardy]

Hi John,

 

I'm not so sure about MS plans here and the docs aren't clear about what browsers etc will be supported by MS themselves. IE6+ is definately in as is any browser that is capable of hosting the Microsoft WebBrowser Control. Not sure which browsers this includes.

 

Its unlikely that the MS plugin will get the same number of installs as the MM plugin but it will certainly be enough to make the platform valid. Having competition in this space will be a great thing and hopefully it will force MM to something about its crazy pricing! :)

 

Cheers Pete (aka lad4bear)

 

On 01/11/05, Peter Hardy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Roland,

 

I don't think you're alone there. And in asp.net 2.0 MS is adding support for AJAX through its call-back mechanism. They are working on an api called Atlas that will allow developers to use AJAX with no or minimal _javascript_. I really think its just an intermeditory step till they release their version of Flex (or something similar) but its a nice addition.

 

All this does make me curious as to what we'll get in the next version of Coldfusion. And when that will be. Any body know? Does MM even say?

 

Cheers Pete (aka lad4bear)

 

On 01/11/05, Roland Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

Purely from the perspective of my own client base, I personally don't believe that Flash is really as viable as a business solution as most people do.  Many of our customers are very large institutions where the Flash plugin is verboten, so it's not even an option for us.  XAML, besides being in beta, is Windows only (for now, though this will change), so that's not an option either.  In the specific market to which we cater, neither is an alternative.  DHTML and AJAX, however . . . they're welcome and embraced with open arms.  Even the institutions that forbid the installation of Flash player still allow _javascript_ to run – call it an odd stance, but that's just reality for us.

 

Roland

 

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John C. Bland II
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:24 PM
To: CFCDev@cfczone.org
Subject: Re: [CFCDev] Xaml vs Mxml

 

One thing that is being forgotten is talking Flex 2 is talking Flash Player. What will XAML play/run in? (rhetorical) Will it beat FP's penetration? (stats to be argued but not the point here; its has the highest penetration rate than any other app in history...including Windows)

So, Flex 2 spits out swfs now which opens it up to the entire Flash market that is there, set, and in place. XAML is coming out trying to win the hearts of Flash folks and trying to take over a market which they are light years (opinion here) away from doing.

Bottom line, if it can't be used on Mac (or other OS') or on other browsers (no firefox...they lose me right there) then they won't make it to the plate. Not saying they won't do well in the windows application dev arena...they just won't be able to hold a candle to Macrodobe. :-)

Again, IMO.

On 11/1/05, John Farrar < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ka-ching… usually you see me on that side of the chat also. Not this time. When you compare Visual Studio with Flex Builder 2… eh, free distribution in both cases. Hmmm… seems like a major shift just saying it will be under 1K. They shipped CFReports free with CF and the report builder is also free. Your talking the old Macromedia… and certainly not giving Adobe credit here either.

 

Microsoft has a history of failed products… they leave them behind. Here's a little marketing class for you. ( DIVERSIFICATION : don't put all your eggs in one basket… I think Microsoft has heard of it before.) With those two details in mind… (and look how many attempts MS has made to best Google in the search engine war!) Bottom line is if you are right… the future of MS pivots on XAML… it will either be a success enough to keep them going, growing or gone. I remember windows 3.x and it's crash ability… and Windows 95… heh. The market won't bear anything less than super stable. It's a different arena and they have to play against Flex.

 

I have one word of advice if XAML doesn't hold it's water against Flex. If someone leaves… rather (WHEN) someone leaves MS for Adobe to join the Flex team… avoid certain execs who hate google. Heh! I love it!

 

John Farrar

 

P.S.

I am a windows user… but the Mac guys must be loving this thread!

 

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Peter Hardy
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:14 PM
To: CFCDev@cfczone.org
Subject: Re: [CFCDev] Xaml vs Mxml

 

hmmm ... am not sure that's a realistic assessment of the situation.

 

Microsoft has invested an enormous amount of time and money on it's new platform which includes  the WPF (Avalon) Framework. This has to be a success for Microsoft and so a success it will be. Anyone who doubts this just needs to look at how Microsoft behaved when the xbox was launched.

 

With Flex 2 on the horizon and Microsofts entry still in Beta I don't think anyone could say which is technically the strongest. But if MM continues to charge high prices for software that MS gives away for free then the future doesn't look too bright The take-over of MM by Adobe is an interesting twist but Adobe's strength and focus is on the presentation tier. I'm not convinced that Coldfusion or Flex had a lot to do with Adobes purchase or what will happen when the inevitable shuffle takes place.

 

Cheers Pete (aka lad4bear)

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