There seems to be a lot of negative energy today.
William, I will start by saying that I find the tone
of your post very disturbing. You may not understand
the context, but that yields little cause to reply in
this manner. I will respond in line and without the
same tone in the hopes that we can come to a common
ground.
--- william ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert's comments are pretty typical and ignorant:
> "I've gotten offers on resume alone for contracts."
> So what?
I am saying that I, and I presume others, have
received offers only on the basis of the resume. This
refutes the contention that the resume does not get
you the job, and I was trying to illustrate the point
that the resume can and does have a significant impact
on the interview, offer and tone of the position. Lou
and I have discussed this off-line.
Further, I would ask why you take the position that my
comments are typical and ignorant. Usually typical
contentions are grounded in some fact. Also, I've
hired people since 1993, and currently screen for a
company that I consult for. I also work with a number
contracting agencies who want to place as many folks
as they can without a lot of overhead, yet it takes a
day or two to polish the resume such that they can
present it. This again leads to frustration, and could
impact placement - 'he's only worth $75 as opposed to
$115/hr.'
>
> "I've rejected a number of otherwise fine canidates
> because
> >their resumes were so bad. (I was hiring.)"
> What's wrong with this picture? Are you hiring the
> person or the resume? In
> fact it sounds like you read the resumes and brought
> them in anyhow for an
> interview. And although in most cases the face to
> face interview is the true
> litmus test, you decided not hire them because to
> you, the resume was just
> to important to overlook? Talk about wasting
> everyone's time.
I will clarify. I have refused to interview
individuals who wasted my time by sending me their
most impressive calling card and not taking the time
to provide a well-constructed document. The resume is
too important to overlook. I have hired people with
great resumes and poor interviews as the interview was
not their best presence - they were nervous, etc. I am
consistently asked to review resumes and regularly get
kudos on mine for what its worth. I also get hired. I
did not disagree with Lou regarding the fact that the
resume is the key to the door, however, I will also
disagree that the resume is a 'just enough' effort.
Too many have gotten used to the low unemployment rate
and easy times we've had and, perhaps, never learned
about the importance of a good resume. Interviewing
skills are also important, as is a good attitude that
does not critize or belittle.
>
> Lou, don't listen to Robert. You have the right
> idea by putting together a
> resume that brings your strengths to light. As for
> getting it into the hands
> of the person making the hiring decision, that is
> always the best case
> scenario. Trust me, even the worst recruiter
> realizes that HR does not add
> much to the process. With this in mind, it is still
> a political game that is
> played at most companies where HR must be involved
> in the process at some
> point so they in affect, don't lose face. The bottom
> line with any good
> manager that has been given the task of hiring a
> good employee is to see
> what this person is about in one on one interview.
> Only than can he or she
> determine whether the person is a fit in more ways
> than one.
>
Agreed, except I would add that the first impression
timer starts with the resume. As such, you might get
in the door with a weak resume, but you will be
working from a position of weakness and it will be
almost impossible to recover.
>
>
>
> >From: "Lou Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "Lou Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Lou Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Robert Padjen"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Resume Length (was: Certifications on
> resumes)
> >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:53:44 -0600
> >
> >I totally agree that a resume should be clean and
> free of errors and
> >project
> >your best image. I was trying to point out (and I
> did a poor job of it)
> >that A CCNA IMHO has a place on the resume (if it
> fits) because the resume
> >only gets you the interview. I know that when I
> wrote my resume most
> >recently, I kept having to remind myself that all I
> wanted the resume to do
> >was get me in the door... open up discussions on
> what I can do, and bypass
> >the HR folks to get to the technical department. I
> was only focusing in on
> >that single point of CCNP and CCNA or just CCNP
> discussion. Please forget
> >that CLASSIC comment I made.
> >
> >Lou
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> >Robert Padjen
> >Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:17 AM
> >To: Lou Nelson; Pradeep Kumar;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: Resume Length (was: Certifications on
> resumes)
> >
> >
> >I fail to see how your reply relates to my post,
> and I
> >would agree with the generic position that the
> resume
> >will not garner the offer - however, I've gotten
> >offers on resume alone for contracts, and I've
> >rejected a number of otherwise fine canidates
> because
> >their resumes were so bad. (I was hiring.) These
> >problems included grammar, spelling, style and
> >content. The resume sets a tone - a good one raises
> >the expectations and elevates the canidate. A poor
> >one, if interviewed, places him/her in a bad
> position
> >from the start.
> >
> >
> >--- Lou Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Robert...
> > > I feel there are some CLASSIC mistakes here.
> The
> > > resume will NEVER... I
> > > repeat NEVER get you a job ... Only
> an
> > > interview... and the HR
> > > will go over to put the full package
> together....
> > > SO lets get this... The
> > > interview and what end of the salary you fall
> on....
> > > The CCNA just might
> > > get the resume from the HR to techies,... who
> will
> > > say... hey we got a CCNP
> > > here... bottom line it can NOT hurt you to put
> the
> > > CCNA under the CCNP.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Robert Padjen
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:38 PM
> > > To: Pradeep Kumar; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: Resume Length (was: Certifications
> on
> > > resumes)
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that having two version of your resume
> is
> > > more
> > > common these days - fancy formatting for print
> and
> > > ASCII for eMail, etc. I PDF mine, and its three
> > > pages,
> > > but the first page is summary and the last page
> is
> > > education, certifications and associations. I
> think
> > > that the length answer is three or under - if
> you've
> > > got more then its either too dated or you've
> done
> > > too
> > > much and aren't parsing out the important stuff.
> > >
> > > When I review for hire I am amazed at the number
> of
> > > gramatical and spelling errors, in addition to
> the
> > > amount of silly stuff. Do I care that you belong
> to
> > > the ski club? No. Do I enjoy seeing the letters
> CCNA
> > > after your name like MD? Not when I'm hiring -
> in
> > > fact, it puts you in place with the rest of the
> > > folks
> > > instead of pulling you to the top.
> > >
> > > One page these days, my opinion, is too sparse.
> Each
> > > of the last five years should have at least four
> > > bullets - that's good for a page in well zized
> text.
> > > Another page for certs and education, and
> perhaps a
> > > little bit for introduction - I personally hate
> the
> > > "I
> > > want a job that..." Also, please DON'T use every
> > > font
> > > and don't print double sided. Leave room for
> > > notes!!!
> > > (Sorry for being a mother hen!)
> > >
> > > For the certs on the resume - CCNA, CCNP..., it
> > > seems
> > > like there are two camps - those that put it in
> for
> > > HR
> > > and keyword search and those that don't want to
> work
> > > for a company that is too stupid to understand
> the
> > > relationship. (The position is too junior if
> they're
> > > looking for NA...) That was the winning
> arguement,
> > > althought for votes it was about 60-40 in favor
> of
> > > putting them in. Thanks. My friend's resume is
> two
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
Robert Padjen
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