i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV, and during
the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young chap with only
1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required
knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Albert Lu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May
Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions,
not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =)
What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in
an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their
CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will
they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy?
>From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the
requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one
of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement.
So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year
experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years?
Albert
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> EA LOUIE
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20
> To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago
> on this thread
> - no fair cashing in twice ;-)
>
> and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem
> to be these
> camps, from what I've read:
>
> 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in
> industry - it's a
> willingness to learn.
> 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an
> enhancement to
> your experience and something that is in written recognizable form.
> 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door
> - it's an
> indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some
> extent on the
> techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a
> non-certified (possibly
> experienced) person
>
> Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a
> bad thing
> ;-)
>
> All of the positions have validity. The original poster was
> concerned about
> VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the
> bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are
> uncertified and
> working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or
> holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been
> tossed around
> alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in
> the eyes of
> the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or
> another, whichever
> way you want to sway it, more power to you!
>
> (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that?
> "It's two, two, two mints in one")
>
> LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at
> my office!
>
> -e-
>
> "Allen May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2
> cents thrown
> > in.
> > ;)
> >
> > Allen
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Padjen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> >
> > > I believe that there are two distinctions that should
> > > be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for
> > > the bachelors degree, the experience is just that -
> > > well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the
> > > focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify
> > > - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This
> > > is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other)
> > > certifications as the certifications present a myopic
> > > view.
> > >
> > > The second distinction is that I would contend neither
> > > represents more than the sum of its components, and
> > > that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated
> > > Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State
> > > with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few
> > > resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of
> > > folks use the name...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point
> > > > of view.
> > > >
> > > > I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP,
> > > > DA, DP and IE written
> > > > are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate
> > > > studies worth the same. Just
> > > > papers.
> > > >
> > > > I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing
> > > > all the cisco stuff.
> > > > I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set
> > > > CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete.
> > > >
> > > > I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx,
> > > > switching, etc before
> > > > taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning
> > > > path version 11.2 and
> > > > just recently obtain my degrees and working for the
> > > > big one.
> > > >
> > > > What will be your opinion Do I know something or I
> > > > am just papers?
> > > >
> > > > You sould be carefull on your opinion about this
> > > > things, all the knowledge
> > > > since a long time ago has been paper, No one has
> > > > achieve glory after years
> > > > of practice and experience.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking that you are trying to do the same
> > > > that the shareowners are
> > > > doing with the internet economy, you are devaluating
> > > > the value of the Certifications,
> > > > why don't you do the same with the college and and
> > > > graduate degrees, they
> > > > are very similar just studying and passing examns
> > > > not real life thing until
> > > > you pass all the levels (semesters and big exam
> > > > thesis).
> > > >
> > > > Giga Internetworking
> > > >
> > > > Fer Saldana
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________
> > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Robert Padjen
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > _________________________________
> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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> > >
> >
> > _________________________________
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>
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