He probably wouldn't even make the interview room, because recruiters would
have screened him out long ago.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Lim Jit Cherng
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 8:40
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV,
> and during
> the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young
> chap with only
> 1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required
> knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Albert Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May
> Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking
> for opinions,
> not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =)
>
> What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in
> an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their
> CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level
> position, or will
> they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy?
>
> >From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the
> requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using
> this as one
> of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement.
>
> So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year
> experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years?
>
> Albert
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > EA LOUIE
> > Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20
> > To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> >
> > No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago
> > on this thread
> > - no fair cashing in twice ;-)
> >
> > and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem
> > to be these
> > camps, from what I've read:
> >
> > 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in
> > industry - it's a
> > willingness to learn.
> > 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an
> > enhancement to
> > your experience and something that is in written recognizable form.
> > 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door
> > - it's an
> > indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some
> > extent on the
> > techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a
> > non-certified (possibly
> > experienced) person
> >
> > Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a
> > bad thing
> > ;-)
> >
> > All of the positions have validity. The original poster was
> > concerned about
> > VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the
> > bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are
> > uncertified and
> > working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more
> important or
> > holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been
> > tossed around
> > alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in
> > the eyes of
> > the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or
> > another, whichever
> > way you want to sway it, more power to you!
> >
> > (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up
> with that?
> > "It's two, two, two mints in one")
> >
> > LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at
> > my office!
> >
> > -e-
> >
> > "Allen May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2
> > cents thrown
> > > in.
> > > ;)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Padjen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> > >
> > >
> > > > I believe that there are two distinctions that should
> > > > be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for
> > > > the bachelors degree, the experience is just that -
> > > > well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the
> > > > focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify
> > > > - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This
> > > > is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other)
> > > > certifications as the certifications present a myopic
> > > > view.
> > > >
> > > > The second distinction is that I would contend neither
> > > > represents more than the sum of its components, and
> > > > that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated
> > > > Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State
> > > > with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few
> > > > resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of
> > > > folks use the name...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point
> > > > > of view.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP,
> > > > > DA, DP and IE written
> > > > > are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate
> > > > > studies worth the same. Just
> > > > > papers.
> > > > >
> > > > > I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing
> > > > > all the cisco stuff.
> > > > > I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set
> > > > > CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete.
> > > > >
> > > > > I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx,
> > > > > switching, etc before
> > > > > taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning
> > > > > path version 11.2 and
> > > > > just recently obtain my degrees and working for the
> > > > > big one.
> > > > >
> > > > > What will be your opinion Do I know something or I
> > > > > am just papers?
> > > > >
> > > > > You sould be carefull on your opinion about this
> > > > > things, all the knowledge
> > > > > since a long time ago has been paper, No one has
> > > > > achieve glory after years
> > > > > of practice and experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking that you are trying to do the same
> > > > > that the shareowners are
> > > > > doing with the internet economy, you are devaluating
> > > > > the value of the Certifications,
> > > > > why don't you do the same with the college and and
> > > > > graduate degrees, they
> > > > > are very similar just studying and passing examns
> > > > > not real life thing until
> > > > > you pass all the levels (semesters and big exam
> > > > > thesis).
> > > > >
> > > > > Giga Internetworking
> > > > >
> > > > > Fer Saldana
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________
> > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Robert Padjen
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
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