STOP THE PRESS..................THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, AND YOU ALL KNOW
IT, IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT YOU KNOW OR WHAT PIECE OF PAPER OR INITIALS YOU
HAVE AFTER YOUR NAME......ITS "WHO YOU KNOW" THAT WILL DETERMINE WHETHER OR
NOT YOU GET THAT JOB.
IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH PAPER CERTS NOR YEARS EXPERIENCE. IF SOMEONE GETS
YOU IN THE DOOR, AND YOU HAVE THE LEAST BIT OF DETERMINATION TO SUCCEED,
THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU. AND WILL PROVIDE YOU THE MENTOR OR ALL
THE TRAINING YOUR BRAINS CAN MUSTER..............ITS TRUE, ITS TRUE.
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:10 AM
To: Lim Jit Cherng
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
He probably wouldn't even make the interview room, because recruiters would
have screened him out long ago.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Lim Jit Cherng
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 8:40
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV,
> and during
> the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young
> chap with only
> 1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required
> knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Albert Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May
> Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking
> for opinions,
> not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =)
>
> What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in
> an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their
> CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level
> position, or will
> they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy?
>
> >From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the
> requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using
> this as one
> of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement.
>
> So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year
> experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years?
>
> Albert
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > EA LOUIE
> > Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20
> > To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> >
> > No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago
> > on this thread
> > - no fair cashing in twice ;-)
> >
> > and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem
> > to be these
> > camps, from what I've read:
> >
> > 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in
> > industry - it's a
> > willingness to learn.
> > 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an
> > enhancement to
> > your experience and something that is in written recognizable form.
> > 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door
> > - it's an
> > indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some
> > extent on the
> > techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a
> > non-certified (possibly
> > experienced) person
> >
> > Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a
> > bad thing
> > ;-)
> >
> > All of the positions have validity. The original poster was
> > concerned about
> > VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the
> > bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are
> > uncertified and
> > working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more
> important or
> > holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been
> > tossed around
> > alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in
> > the eyes of
> > the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or
> > another, whichever
> > way you want to sway it, more power to you!
> >
> > (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up
> with that?
> > "It's two, two, two mints in one")
> >
> > LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at
> > my office!
> >
> > -e-
> >
> > "Allen May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2
> > cents thrown
> > > in.
> > > ;)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Padjen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> > >
> > >
> > > > I believe that there are two distinctions that should
> > > > be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for
> > > > the bachelors degree, the experience is just that -
> > > > well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the
> > > > focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify
> > > > - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This
> > > > is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other)
> > > > certifications as the certifications present a myopic
> > > > view.
> > > >
> > > > The second distinction is that I would contend neither
> > > > represents more than the sum of its components, and
> > > > that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated
> > > > Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State
> > > > with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few
> > > > resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of
> > > > folks use the name...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point
> > > > > of view.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP,
> > > > > DA, DP and IE written
> > > > > are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate
> > > > > studies worth the same. Just
> > > > > papers.
> > > > >
> > > > > I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing
> > > > > all the cisco stuff.
> > > > > I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set
> > > > > CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete.
> > > > >
> > > > > I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx,
> > > > > switching, etc before
> > > > > taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning
> > > > > path version 11.2 and
> > > > > just recently obtain my degrees and working for the
> > > > > big one.
> > > > >
> > > > > What will be your opinion Do I know something or I
> > > > > am just papers?
> > > > >
> > > > > You sould be carefull on your opinion about this
> > > > > things, all the knowledge
> > > > > since a long time ago has been paper, No one has
> > > > > achieve glory after years
> > > > > of practice and experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking that you are trying to do the same
> > > > > that the shareowners are
> > > > > doing with the internet economy, you are devaluating
> > > > > the value of the Certifications,
> > > > > why don't you do the same with the college and and
> > > > > graduate degrees, they
> > > > > are very similar just studying and passing examns
> > > > > not real life thing until
> > > > > you pass all the levels (semesters and big exam
> > > > > thesis).
> > > > >
> > > > > Giga Internetworking
> > > > >
> > > > > Fer Saldana
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________
> > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Robert Padjen
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
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