Ok here is my 0.02.
I am not a CCIE. I have only an MCSE, and am 25 years old, single father of
one 7 year old daughter. I don't have a college degree. I started my own
consulting firm when I was 18, and went directly to the IT field. I now
have 7 solid years of IT experience under my belt, and work as a senior
security network architect for IBM. This year I will pull in just 5K shy of
6 digits. I have people with college degrees working for me.
Now let me tell you a story.
Those first 5 years were hell. I remember spending money in books and tools
instead of food. I remember long sleepless nights studying or driving
across the country in search of work and the next opportunity. I remember
being turned down many times for jobs solely because I didn't have the
degree. I had to play the numbers and apply for I would say 7 times the
number of jobs to get 1 interview, and of those interviews, 75% of them
would turn me down because of the lack of degree.
Today I have met people who don't have degrees or certifications and make
twice as much or more than I. These people have been in networking forever
and damn sure don't need certifications, and degrees are mute. I am still
disoriented by what I have found in this case, here are these folks, the top
experts in the networking field in the world, but they don't have nor need,
any pieces of papers other than their resume and reputation to get them
anywhere.
I believe that any level of success and opportunity I enjoy today is largely
due to a level of successful self-marketing. Opportunities became available
to me not because of what cert I had, but because a company needed something
done that I had already done, I was able to sell myself to them that I was
the guy to do it for them, and I just kept building on that base. Like
Michael, I feel that the path I have chosen has greatly accelerated my
career. Most people my age coming out of college do not come out making
what I make, nor are they allowed to work with the cutting edge technologies
I am allowed to work with, or doing the caliber of work I do.
I don't regret not having a degree, however I will not tell you that you
shouldn't get it.
I posted a thread here that is labeled "are Cisco certifications still worth
anything?" Please read the responses I got, some from CCIE's to get a
splash of reality of things could be after you get your CCIE.... reality is
you probably won't be deploying anything, and will likely have a desk job,
reviewing architectures, and designing infrastructures, and even still some
CCIE's use their certs for advancing up in an organization. I agree with
all the comments presented in that thread, including the parts about the
different uses for certifications.
The only common denominator I have been able to identify in any response is
the more experience you get, the less your educational or certification
level seems to matter. I'm no longer questioned about lack of
certifications or degrees(but note it took 7 years). I found that I made a
bigger deal about it than did employers. My employers need things to get
done so that they can turn a profit, and I give them that, and they pay me
for it. A good name goes a long way... work finds me now, because people
don't stop talking about what I can do, because I do it to their delight and
satisfaction, and do it better and faster than most. It's amazing how
projects just seem to "find" their way to me, and not one asks beforehand if
I have a degree. It's "Tony, we heard you were involved in such and such,
we are trying to do this and that, would you be part of our team to get this
done?"
I'll stop here because I have placed enough fuel for flamers... flamers go
read the other thread and THINK before you post. I would say go finish the
degree, but if you are offered the opportunity to work with industry
leaders, in a cutting edge environment, but will be asked to limit your
schooling, I would cut you schooling back to as little as possible to stay
enrolled and go after the opportunity, after the college degree is attained,
it will only go so far, the rest will come from your experience and
reputation(and maybe a few certs).
Yeah ok college I hear is fun, but think about the quality of your play, if
drinking cheap beer in a frat house with the AC broken is better for you
than the fun you can have because you are making a good chunk and can spend
the money, then stay in college, but I would say that's simply irresponsible
to make a decision to stay in college solely on the fact that you have ready
parties to go to. I personally couldn't wait to get serious about life so I
could play later, and play in style. I didn't miss the parties.
At this time I however am not going back to school because it would be
disruptive to the life/work/family balance I have right now, and I am
looking forward to terrorizing my daughter in 13 years by telling her that I
will be going to college with her (I hear teenagers love to hear this). I
damn sure don't need the little bit of extra money right now a degree would
give me(i'm not going to miss that extra 20k per year, at this income level,
most of it would get eaten up in taxes anyway), and after 7 years of
experience, I'm damn sure I don't need to spend my days learning about intro
calculus or freshman biology, I especially don't need to spend time studying
college curriculum when I ought to be involved with my daughter's life while
she's young, and especially when she starts getting older. However, I want
to make clear that I see a value in the degree, mostly because of the
emphasis put on having a B.S. degree, and in a way I would do it as a
"caving in" to the societal pressure rather than because I feel I needed it.
Furthermore, I hear the parties are a blast, and once I no longer have a
daughter at home to take care of, I'm going to need a social life, I hear
school is a good place to meet people(and young women). By that time I will
be semi-retired, my house will be paid for in the next 5 years, I will have
a huge chuck in the bank, and could go back to school in style and not worry
about the money, heck I would probably be able to take a "extended life
balance leave of absence" and not lose my job, my benefits, or my pension.
Anyway, that's my 0.02.
""Michael Cohen"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I've found the responses to this thread extremely interesting because I
feel
> they relate directly to experiences in my career path. Here's a
perspective
> from the other end. I am 23 years old. I am currently a CNE, MCSE, CCNP,
> CCDP, and CCIE #6080. I personally don't put a great deal of stock into
an
> individual solely on certification however I know employers do weigh this
> information. I completed my Associates Degree in the Air Force but still
> haven't finished my engineering degree. Attaining these certifications
> opened many doors for me and allowed me to gain a wealth of experience in
> many cutting edge technologies with both enterprise and service provider
> companies. I strongly believe these certifications have influenced
> employers to give me opportunities that my youth would normally deny. I
> also believe that these certifications (and the experience I have gained
> because of them) give me an edge when competing for a job against others
> without certification or experience. Don't get me wrong. I think it is
> very true to say a college degree will last forever and is beneficial in
the
> long run however I strongly feel my professional career has been greatly
> accelerated due to the career path I have chosen. I don't regret putting
> industry certifications before college at this time (except for those wild
> college parties I've heard about!!). However, I am continuing my
education
> and plan to finish my degree in a couple of years.
>
> HTH,
>
> -Michael Cohen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Neil Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Way off subject [7:9997]
>
>
> For what it's worth I agree. College degree first, certifications second.
> The B.A./B.S. gives you general employability? in any field.
>
> Neil Schneider
>
>
> ""Allen May"" wrote in message
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > College counts SO much more than certifications (which expire). College
> > degrees do not expire. I went through the same thing in college getting
> my
> > Novell Certification while working and studying college. Just look at
it
> > now...my college degree still gets me a job but being certified in
Novell
> > 3.11 doesn't count for much at all these days ;)
> >
> > Focus on college primarily and if you have free time, work on your Cisco
> > certs then. You've got a year and a half along with breaks between
> > semesters to do that. Dedication will pay off if you stick with it.
You
> > may even find a side job while in school working in IT where you have
the
> > ability to learn hands on Cisco (that's how I learned). Just work your
> way
> > up after college out of IT and you'll have a much better understanding
of
> > the network from the bottom up. So many people only know their little
> piece
> > of networking. They may know Cisco routers better than anyone else
around
> > but sit them in front of a workstation with an unfamiliar O/S and they
> have
> > trouble even doing traceroute, netstat, arp, etc to troubleshoot why
that
> > one workstation can't get on the network.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Con Fused"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:06 PM
> > Subject: Way off subject [7:9997]
> >
> >
> > > Im in a dilemma. I need some career advice from some experienced
> > > professionals and anyone else that has been on the same road.
> > > I am 22 years old I have one more test (CIT) to complete my CCNP. I
> > have
> > > been planning on studying for the CCIE and taking the lab within the
> next
> > > year and a half but Im not sure now. My problem is that I want to get
> my
> > > computer science degree and I dont think I can get both and work at
the
> > same
> > > time. I am about 2 and a half years from graduating. I also work 40
> > hours
> > > a week as a computer tech for an elementary school. I have hands on
> > > experience with cisco only in a lab enviroment, not in a production
> > network.
> > > I feel confident that I want to keep learning networking, but at the
> > same
> > > time I feel I am missing something by not having a degree and not
having
> a
> > > broader understanding of computer systems.
> > > The longer I work and put off school I know it will be harder for
myself
> > to
> > > get the degree.
> > >
> > > Now I am deciding to go to school full time (after I save up some
money)
> > and
> > > get the degree done.
> > > I guess the only reason I feel hesitant about doing this is because I
am
> > > getting closer to getting the CCIE and that has been my focus for the
> last
> > > year and a half. But I have been thinking about it and I think having
> the
> > > degree behind me will help in the long run if I want to go into
> management
> > > or if I decide to maybe get into network programming (which I know
> nothing
> > > about but am kinda curious to learn). Part of me wants to get into
the
> > > field now, but the logical part of me is telling myself to wait and
get
> > the
> > > degree. I dont want to get a cisco related job while going to school
> > > because that will postpone myself getting the degree or take away from
> my
> > > job because I am focusing on school. Any suggestions?
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=11033&t=9997
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