At 8:06 AM +0000 2/13/03, Eric Rogers wrote: >Just curious, but didn't this all start when a couple of vendors got into a >pissing match over on the CCIE Lab list back when?
I'll leave it to Paul Borghese to decide how specifically to discuss this, but the problem literally goes back for years. Some of the worst offenses have been moderated out of the queue, so you haven't seen all of them. Suffice it to say that I'd be delighted to see objective comparisons. I'd personally not object to new product announcements (as distinct from advertisements), as long as someone doesn't start announcing every minor fix to keep their name in the spotlight. After all, vendors have their own support forums for that sort of thing. Vendors have lots of people with substantial expertise, but some responses really aren't at the level at which they could contribute and come across as flagging their product. There's nothing wrong with people with interest in training materials or services making informative responses -- offhand, most of the "old timers" do have some product relationships. There are also problems with people who have made very few, or even zero, posts before they come out with an attack on a person or on a product. A complex issue is whether or not to have discussions on-list of commercial scenarios. If you don't have the workbook, the discussion is apt to be impossible to follow. If you describe the scenario in enough detail that someone can reproduce it, some vendors may claim illegal distribution. The only answer I can think of here is to paraphrase the specific requirement, and show your own configs and displays and ask specific questions. What I don't want to see is personal attacks, or large volumes of commercial materials. I don't want to see things that appear to involve attempts at, or corrections to, piracy. I haven't, for example, announced most of my CertZone tutorials to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. That leads to silly situations like the present, where -- to violate my own rules -- I have a tutorial there that is freely downloadable for the rest of the month and bears on several discussions here. Incidentally, I do not make the decision at CertZone of which materials go into the free monthly post. I've been more liberal in mentioning my books, because books are inherently cheaper, and I think people know that author income from conventionally published books is far less than from workbook sales. Even then, I'll usually post some URLs to related materials. I do agree with Chuck's point alone that thinking any one source of training materials is adequate for CCIE, unless you have extensive real-world experience, just isn't realistic. If you can't afford more than one source, then get involved in writing and exchanging scenarios. That's a good exercise anyway -- after you write a scenario that you think has a straightforward result and clear instructions, you'll be amazed at how many people come back and say it's unclear. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The Long and Winding Road" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:21 PM >Subject: CCIE Study Materials - Anti-Rant [7:62930] > > >> There was some off line discussion earlier today about an attempted post >> asking about CCIE study materials, in particular vendors of practice labs. >I >> don't see that particular post in the list today, so I'm going to assume >> that the decision was made not to allow it. And I am going to rant a bit >> about this and the topic of posting questions like "which study materials, >> which books, which practice labs are best for whatever?" >> >> Having been a regular participant on this news group for over three years >> now, I, like many here, have seen these same questions over and over. As >the >> off line discussion went - maybe we should tell whomever just to go search >> the archives. >> >> My rant is this - maybe I'm cynical, and maybe I've seen all the same > > questions over an over, but dammit, this newsgroup was started to help >> people prepare for certifications, and dammit just because I or anyone >else >> has seen the same questions over an over doesn't mean that everyone else >> has. These topics should be permitted, should be discussed, and names >should >> be named. >> >> I appreciate the concern about commercial posts. I appreciate that there >> have been a couple of people who have footers advertising all of their >> business ventures, and will regularly post "that's right" answers to other >> posts just to get their products and services out in front of this group. >> >> I appreciate that folks like Howard and Priscilla also have books and >other >> things to sell, but are welcome here because of their unselfish >> participation, and unselfish helpfulness. >> >> I appreciate that there are other sources of study materials and rent a >rack >> time than those whose names come up regularly here and over on the CCIE >> list. >> >> I appreciate that some of the purveyors of books and study materials don't >> bother participating on this forum, but that does not in and of itself say >> anything about the value of their products or services. I think a forum >like >> this is an appropriate avenue to discuss the options out there. >> >> While I personally don't care for a lot of the "what's best" questions >> because I think they beg he issue and really miss the point, I do think >that >> the purpose of this news list remains exchange of information and advice >to >> those who ask and from those willing to offer. >> >> I will finish this "anti rant" with two thoughts. >> >> 1) it's up to the participants here to determine how they want things to >go. >> If people don't want to read posts about "what's best" they are certainly >> free to ignore them. If they can offer advice, I believe people should be >> free to offer it. I certainly think people should be free to ask. I also >> think that vendors should not be sneaking in here under false names and >> false pretenses asking people to comment on their product. >> >> 2) in the end, I don't believe that any of the books or classes or >practice >> labs are better than any others in terms of preparing people for certs, >> particularly for the CCIE Lab. It is more important to read a lot, study a >> lot, practice a lot. Sorry to all of the purveyors of study materials for >> saying it, but the key is practice with lots of different situations, not >> practice with one vendor or another. >> >> Presented for your consideration. >> >> Chuck >> -------- >> TANSTAAFL > > "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=62952&t=62930 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
