It's pretty hard in clojure to keep track of a data structure and ensure some function introduced later in the middle of a data path doesn't seq it along the way. You get some discipline around this, but it adds to the learning curve.
I wouldn't say polymorphism is better or easier than being stricter with types in a core library, especially when it comes to modifications, but it's super useful on reads (iterators, seqs, slurp). I will say that this is like a 2008-era debate whose ship has sailed in clojure. On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 11:34 AM Alex Miller <a...@puredanger.com> wrote: > I think you're no longer teaching Clojure then. The values embedded in > this design choice are important and erasing them does a disservice to > learners. > > I think by fighting this, you're actually making Clojure harder than it is. > > > On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 9:49:33 AM UTC-5, Christian Seberino wrote: >> >> Alex >> >> Thanks for all the replies. It is clear there are 2 values in language >> design...*simplicity* and *efficiency*. Sometimes they conflict >> unfortunately. >> Clojure sacrificed a tiny amount of simplicity for a huge gain in >> efficiency with the design of conj and friends. >> >> Imagine someone wanted to have Clojure compete with Python and Scheme for >> introductory programming classes. In that space >> simplicity is everything. Maybe it would make sense there to teach using >> "prepend" and "append" functions to keep things as simple as possible. >> Then, later when they were more confident and ready, efficiency >> considerations and conj could be explained. >> >> Would that give the best of both worlds? Everyone could have what they >> want when they want it. >> >> cs >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 4:30:51 PM UTC-5, Alex Miller wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 4:08:47 PM UTC-5, solussd wrote: >>>> >>>> Another way to think about it is lists and vectors are different and >>>> the idiomatic way to add items to them is different. >>>> >>> >>> I would say different data structures have different ways to >>> *efficiently* add items to them, and conj is an operation to add items >>> efficiently (meaning, sub-linear time). So when you see conj, you know it >>> is always a "fast" operation. >>> >>> >>>> A (singly-linked) list is usually prepended to (otherwise you have to >>>> walk the entire list to find the end). A vector is usually added to at it’s >>>> n+1 index, where n is the size of the vector. The conj function is >>>> polymorphic. >>>> >>>> cons takes a seq and returns a seq. It only cares that it can get a seq >>>> on whatever collection you give it and will always prepend to that seq. >>>> >>> >>> Slight modification - I would say cons takes a *seqable* and returns a >>> seq. For example, a vector is seqable, but not a seq. >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
