+ Grammar. I should not write correspondence before having coffee. On Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:31:42 AM UTC+2, Henrik Eneroth wrote: > > Sweden has some things going for it, and some not, as always. I think > business overall is somewhat less cutthroat here than in the States, which > is why it struck me that I might be making assumptions about what OP should > or should not do out of ignorance of his situation. The scape goat > reasoning really brought this home. > > At the two most recent places I've been (I'm a consultant, a UX designer), > they've worked with autonomous teams. That is, the teams are themselves > responsible for deciding how to solve a problem, sometimes including what > programming language to use. One result of this seems to emerge (I only > have a sample size of two) a microservice centered design and a general > decoupling between the teams. > > Also, it naturally seems to lead to a more heterogeneous environment, for > good or for bad. This seems to be somewhat self-regulating however, as > other most members of a team will protest if one member wants to write the > new service in the Shakespearean Programming Language, for example. It also > leads to the same kind of resistance to more sensible choices as well, like > Clojure. But unlike SPL or Brainfuck, they actually have chance of being > used if they show merit, probably by filling some niche role to begin with. > > When I was with Spotify, I learned that they had snuck in some Clojure in > one of the teams of the organization. No one has been fired yet, and > everyone seems happy enough. Especially the people who now get to do at > least *some* Clojure during their work day. > > Oh, and like Linus, I try to promote Clojure wherever I go. As a designer, > I'd love to work with a team that uses Clojure. That is, a team that > understands that incidental complexity eventually seeps out to for the user > to deal with, and so on. Unfortunately, being framed as a designer means I > have less natural authority when I say that Clojure is awesome. Although > this is somewhat mitigated somewhat by the sheer shock of having a designer > saying something comprehensible about a programming language. > > On Thursday, August 21, 2014 7:44:18 AM UTC+2, Quzanti wrote: >> >> "If an investor were kicking people out, its usually because money is >> running low or for other more diffuse reasons. If an investor or boss >> somewhere where kicking out people at random, he would quickly loose >> respect from his other employeers. The rest would soon leave as well." >> >> Hence the need for a scapegoat. Generally if an investor can make 20% of >> their startups work, people will blame the technologists for the failure of >> the other 80%, and the investor will have a PR machine to distort the >> history if needed. But yes, startup hubs work best when there are angel >> investors who want to build a personal reputation or where the >> institutional investors have strong links with the universities producing >> the start up talent and so don't want to jeopardise those (eg the Stanford >> University system). Even the best VCs will shut down the majority of their >> start ups though, so you'd think that would make people avoid them, but >> there are always people out there who need money to try and realise their >> dreams. >> >> All a bit tangential to the the original thread question though, which >> was assuming a high growth, high pressure, scale it up fast, need results >> kind of culture, would Clojure be a good fit? >> >> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:46:48 PM UTC+1, Linus Ericsson wrote: >>> >>> Well, for better or worse we don't like conflicts that much. This has >>> benefits when it comes to some kinds of problem solving (the way to >>> consensus in Swedish companies is worth at least a chapter in a big book >>> about antrophology). This shyness for open conflicts can lead to stagnation. >>> >>> This means that status quo is not turned over that easily, but when it >>> does, it happens like an avalanche (cow oscillator comes to mind). >>> Stockholm University has Clojure and Erlang in its second year curriculum >>> for computer science. Just saying. >>> >>> Apart from that, its 3kloc database queries and Java classes galore and >>> Wordpress shops all over, like everywhere else. The single larges group >>> of workers in Stockholm is of course computer programmer. 33000 people out >>> of a million of so. >>> >>> If an investor were kicking people out, its usually because money is >>> running low or for other more diffuse reasons. If an investor or boss >>> somewhere where kicking out people at random, he would quickly loose >>> respect from his other employeers. The rest would soon leave as well. >>> >>> "In Sweden we have a system..." the ironic saying goes, but the truth is >>> that even though the housing situation is outright catastrophic, you would >>> not ever be put on the street if you wasn't psychotic enough not to accept >>> the help offered (worst case you would end up in a sad, sleepy, far far out >>> suburb with long commuting distances, but hey). The social security system >>> is simply generous enough to make sure people gets back on track, should it >>> be long time unemployment or whatever (this, and elderly care jobs, are >>> powering much of the popular music industry here). >>> >>> Ah, everybody generalizes all the time. Henrik can nuance the picture. >>> >>> I have been programming and promoting Clojure quite aggressively for >>> some years (it's hard not to), and the last months people have been >>> starting to say "yeah, my java friends really likes it" or "yes, my bf >>> likes it too". >>> >>> Wind of change. >>> >>> /Linus >>> working at Agical AB, a consultancy in love with technology and >>> sometimes hosting Clojure Meet ups with Stockholm Clojure User Group and >>> wov, so much thing I really can help companies with everywhere, epic win >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014, Quzanti <quz...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Just looked at your profile. Sweden? A very enlightened place. I am a >>>> big fan of the Paradox Interactive games. What happens in Sweden when >>>> investors lose their money? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 7:16:55 PM UTC+1, Henrik Eneroth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> … as soon as anything goes wrong whether it has anything to do with >>>>>> the technology choice or not you become mr fall guy, to be blamed and >>>>>> fired >>>>>> so that other people can keep their jobs. Seen it happen so many times. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good lord, truly? Perhaps this is a good time to ask what culture OP >>>>> lives in. This wouldn't happen where I live/work. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>>> your first post. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>
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