What about a compromise where you could opt-in or opt-out of checking macro specs at compile time (via a compiler option)? It seems worth preserving the correctness of the spec, without forcing all of the breakage.
Andrew Oberstar On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 9:13 PM Colin Fleming <colin.mailingl...@gmail.com> wrote: > With respect to preserving undocumented behaviour, while in general I'm in > favour of making compilers stricter, in this case it seems like the change > breaks a lot of existing code in ways that are impossible for library > consumers to fix themselves - they have to wait for an update to the > library, or fork it. Leaving the symbol option seems like a very low-impact > change, it's not going to be a massive amount of technical debt in Clojure > itself. There are many areas of unspecified behaviour in the reader (for > example, keywords starting with numbers, the keyword function allowing > creation of unreadable keywords etc) which have not been fixed because it > would break some existing code - I suspect the impact of fixing that would > be far less than the impact of this change. > > I don't understand why this particular change is so important that > significant breakage to real code is considered acceptable. I agree with > Brian that it doesn't seem very pragmatic. > > On 21 August 2016 at 13:22, Brian Marick <mar...@roundingpegs.com> wrote: > >> >> On Aug 20, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Timothy Baldridge <tbaldri...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Brian, let's make it more concrete then...why should the Clojure compiler >> continue to support undocumented features that make code unportable? >> >> >> Because: >> >> 1. People who want to port to clojurescript will incur exactly the same >> cost as they do now. >> 2. People who don’t want to port to clojurescript will incur no >> additional cost. >> 3. Clojurescript maintainers will incur no additional cost. >> 4. Clojure maintainers will incur the cost of adding “or symbol” to >> current code. >> 5. No one writing documentation will incur any cost, as what was not >> mentioned before will continue to be unmentioned. >> >> 6. There will be a psychic cost because of an undocumented inconsistency >> between clojure and clojurescript. >> 7. If, at some point, clojure and clojurescript shared code for the >> implementation of `ns`, one or the other would have to change the pre >> 1.9-alpha11 behavior. >> >> Do I have this enumeration of costs wrong? >> >> It’s a bit surprising to me that my explicit appeal to consider costs and >> benefits to real people is not being addressed. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
