Electric motor torque is usually flat from 0 RPM to max HP RPM and drops from
there.
----------------------\
\
\
Joe Della Barba
-----Original Message-----
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 3:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Alex;
I've just started reading this e-mail string, so forgive me if what I am about
to say has already been covered.
All of the prop manufacturers I've dealt with offer a way to get a
recommendation for the proper prop size on their website. You provide the HP of
your engine (and maybe the model and max torque information), the gear
reduction (output RPM) and max engine speed, and information on the
size/model/weight of the boat. They tell you which prop options would be
optimal.
For my 15,000 pound 38, with 36 hp diesel @3000 max RPM, and a 1.76:1 reduction
Gori recommended a 16x10, Martec a 16x 10.5, and Flex-o-fold a
15x11 (each in 2-blade, I'd need to look for the 3-blade recommendations).
On the face of it, 14x12 looks like a lot of prop. State of the art electric
drives (using AC controllers or DC Pulse Width Modulation) used in industrial
vehicles can be designed to produce max torque at under 10 RPM, but the torque
produced generally declines as RPM increases.
My 16x10.5 Martec is roughly equivalent to a 14x14, I'm told. It is handling
about 300 ft-lbs of max torque at about 1300 prop RPM. (Torque load falls off
above that point as you approach 3000 engine/1700 prop RPM). Don't know what
the torque curve is for your electric drive, but I wonder if it might be unable
to reach a high enough RPM before the torque load maxes out the RPM.
If you've not done so already, I'd suggest that you talk to the folks at Martec
(and the manufacturer of your electric drive) to get a prop recommendation.
Rick Brass
-----Original Message-----
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Giannelia
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 2:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
FWIW,
I had a 14x6 Martec at the end of an old WESTERBEKE 15HP diesel pushing/pulling
my CC35-II in and out of the slip and only when facing a real tailwind backing
out of my slip, did I have noticeable problems.
So, for my new Electric motor, I dove in and bought a MARTEC 14X12 and
will have to wait till spring to see if I go forward, sideways or backward.
Cheers!
Alex Giannelia
CC 35-II 1974 to be renamed after re-launch TORONTO, Ontario
ag@@airsensing.com
-----Original Message-----
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
Sent: October-21-13 12:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 93, Issue 60
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Folding/feathering Props (Steve Thomas)
2. Re: Folding/feathering Props (Paul Fountain)
3. Re: Folding/feathering Props (Jerome Tauber)
4. Re: Reply - Spar Crane (djhaug...@juno.com)
5. New Head and holding tank system. (djhaug...@juno.com)
6. Re: New Head and holding tank system. (Joel Aronson)
7. Re: New Head and holding tank system. (Jim Watts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:18:29 -0400
From: Steve Thomas <sthom...@sympatico.ca>
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Message-ID: <blu0-smtp1852402267b7df525486a5bf...@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sam,
I found a used geared Gori for my 27 and it works fine in forward and
reverse. I had hoped to find a 3 blade folder of some kind to minimise
vibration but when I checked the manufacturers specifications there were none
available in a small enough diameter. That was a few years ago so it might not
be true now.
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
-----Original Message-----
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Good experiences; thanks for sharing.
Looks like two or three endorsements for the Max Prop; about the same against
the Martec; one for the Flexofold; ...and a Gori replacing a Martec!
couple of questions:
How big a deal is the maintenance on the Max Prop?
Is it just a matter of greasing the prop every couple of years or is there
more? - I pull the boat out of the lake every October; so it wouldn't be too
much of a concern.
I still have the old prop on the shaft. Am I correct in assuming that the taper
is a standard SAE? I'm going to need to know for sure before I order.
(Probably safer to remove the prop and measure for peace of mind!) Any more
information / experiences / insights welcome.
sam
C&C 26. Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
??On 10/20/2013 7:21 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote:
Sam, I have a two blade Flex I Fold, which goes nicely forwards and backwards
and replaced a 2 blade non-geared Martec that went sideways in reverse and
sometimes went forward if the blades opened together (even after rebuilding).
The two do not compare.
Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:10 PM, David Donnelly <da...@gnuattitude.ca> wrote:
Sam I also have the 2 blade Martec and a 26. I have not found poor
performance in reverse but I don't do it a bunch either. Can push just fine
going forward.
David
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: Harry Hallgring <hhallgr...@icloud.com>
Date: 10-20-2013 5:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Sam,
I have a two blade folding Martec prop that goes 7 kts forward and four kts
directly sideways in reverse. Going with a Gori this winter.
Harry
Sent from my iPhone 6Beta
On Oct 19, 2013, at 20:21, Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com> wrote:
This winters project is a folding/feathering prop.
I've just sent off inquiries to:
Flexofold
Max Prop
Slipstream
Anyone got any comments/observations/likes/dislikes.
Any experience good or bad with any type of folding/feathering prop would
be useful.
Any other manufacturers recommended.
Now is your chance to get in on a real sailing topic - folding/feathering
props OR rum!
sam :-)
C&C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:43:46 -0400
From: Paul Fountain <paul.fount...@sympatico.ca>
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Message-ID: <blu0-smtp19294b1e15e6255de912f397...@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sam,
Another vote for Flex-o-fold. Put a 2 blade on Perception after we repowered
and love it, replaced a 3 blade Campbell Sailor ? and great in forward and
reverse.
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: October-21-13 4:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Good experiences; thanks for sharing.
Looks like two or three endorsements for the Max Prop; about the same against
the Martec; one for the Flexofold; ...and a Gori replacing a Martec!
couple of questions:
How big a deal is the maintenance on the Max Prop?
Is it just a matter of greasing the prop every couple of years or is there
more? - I pull the boat out of the lake every October; so it wouldn't be too
much of a concern.
I still have the old prop on the shaft. Am I correct in assuming that the taper
is a standard SAE? I'm going to need to know for sure before I order.
(Probably safer to remove the prop and measure for peace of mind!) Any more
information / experiences / insights welcome.
sam
C&C 26. Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
??On 10/20/2013 7:21 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote:
Sam, I have a two blade Flex I Fold, which goes nicely forwards and backwards
and replaced a 2 blade non-geared Martec that went sideways in reverse and
sometimes went forward if the blades opened together (even after rebuilding).
The two do not compare.
Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:10 PM, David Donnelly <da...@gnuattitude.ca> wrote:
Sam I also have the 2 blade Martec and a 26. I have not found poor performance
in reverse but I don't do it a bunch either. Can push just fine going forward.
David
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: Harry Hallgring <hhallgr...@icloud.com>
Date: 10-20-2013 5:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Sam,
I have a two blade folding Martec prop that goes 7 kts forward and four kts
directly sideways in reverse. Going with a Gori this winter.
Harry
Sent from my iPhone 6Beta
On Oct 19, 2013, at 20:21, Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com> wrote:
This winters project is a folding/feathering prop.
I've just sent off inquiries to:
Flexofold
Max Prop
Slipstream
Anyone got any comments/observations/likes/dislikes.
Any experience good or bad with any type of folding/feathering prop would be
useful.
Any other manufacturers recommended.
Now is your chance to get in on a real sailing topic - folding/feathering props
OR rum!
sam :-)
C&C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jerome Tauber <jrtau...@aol.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Message-ID: <8d09c7a61a37ee2-718-2a...@webmail-m293.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
There is a new Kiwi company out of New Zeland making composite feathering
props getting rave reviews. A friend put one on his Sweden 38 and says he
gained a half knot under sail and power. Here is the contact info. Web
site - http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php,
POSTAL ADDRESS:
FACTORY LOCATION:
Kiwi Feather Props Ltd 12 c Homestead
Drive, Mt Wellington, AK 1072
PO Box 25-367
St Heliers Bay
Auckland 1740, NEW ZEALAND
email: Email Kiwiprops
GMT + 12 hours
Phone: +64 9 5757 975
Factory: +64 9 5745 606
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Thomas <sthom...@sympatico.ca>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:18 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Sam,
I found a used geared Gori for my 27 and it works fine in forward and
reverse. I had hoped to find a 3 blade folder of some kind to minimise
vibration but when I checked the manufacturers specifications there were none
available in a small enough diameter. That was a few years ago so it might not
be true now.
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
-----Original Message-----
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Good experiences; thanks for sharing.
Looks like two or three endorsements for the Max Prop; about the same against
the Martec; one for the Flexofold; ...and a Gori replacing a Martec!
couple of questions:
How big a deal is the maintenance on the Max Prop?
Is it just a matter of greasing the prop every couple of years or is there
more? - I pull the boat out of the lake every October; so it wouldn't be too
much of a concern.
I still have the old prop on the shaft. Am I correct in assuming that the taper
is a standard SAE? I'm going to need to know for sure before I order.
(Probably safer to remove the prop and measure for peace of mind!) Any more
information / experiences / insights welcome.
sam
C&C 26. Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
??On 10/20/2013 7:21 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote:
Sam, I have a two blade Flex I Fold, which goes nicely forwards and
backwards and replaced a 2 blade non-geared Martec that went sideways in
reverse and sometimes went forward if the blades opened together (even
after rebuilding). The two do not compare.
Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:10 PM, David Donnelly <da...@gnuattitude.ca> wrote:
Sam I also have the 2 blade Martec and a 26. I have not found poor performance
in reverse but I don't do it a bunch either. Can push just fine going forward.
David
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: Harry Hallgring <hhallgr...@icloud.com>
Date: 10-20-2013 5:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props
Sam,
I have a two blade folding Martec prop that goes 7 kts forward and four
kts directly sideways in reverse. Going with a Gori this winter.
Harry
Sent from my iPhone 6Beta
On Oct 19, 2013, at 20:21, Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com> wrote:
This winters project is a folding/feathering prop.
I've just sent off inquiries to:
Flexofold
Max Prop
Slipstream
Anyone got any comments/observations/likes/dislikes.
Any experience good or bad with any type of folding/feathering prop
would be useful.
Any other manufacturers recommended.
Now is your chance to get in on a real sailing topic -
folding/feathering props OR rum!
sam :-)
C&C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:11:37 GMT
From: "djhaug...@juno.com" <djhaug...@juno.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Reply - Spar Crane
Message-ID: <20131021.111137.1822...@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Damien,How was your season? It was WAY too short! I just asked for a haul
out today... Now we wait... I'm planning a new waste system installation this
winter and I'm wonder how your boat is set up. Where the tank is, how it is
piped, blah blah blah... I'm just looking for ideas in designing mine so, any
pics would be awesome. I'll document my project.
My handrails, traveler base and hatch boards came out really nice! I'd love to
redo all the interior but it seems like quite and undertaking. If I were
closer to the boat it would be different. It is the whole needing 8 coats, One
coat per day, in the right temperatures that make it a difficult and time
consuming process. If I could figure a way to keep the boat warm safely it
would be great. Then Temp would not be an issue. Anyway the head is the
priority right now. I hate the system in place currently... I googled you
yacht club! That looks like a nice protected spot and very close to what looks
like some g!
reat sailing waters!! Hope all is well with you. Danny
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Damien Morrissey <morrissey.dam...@gmail.com>
To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Reply - Spar Crane
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 13:58:52 -0230
Our club, Bay of Islands YC in Corner Brook, Newfoundland has a dock side
service crane with a capacity of about 1,200 lbs. �Members are free to
use it as needed and most of us partner up with a few people to get our masts
up or down each season. � �The club also has 2 front end loader
tractors and a hydraulic trailer that launches or hauls out our boats as
needed. � This is operated by our members and each of us have to sign a
waiver against seeking damage compensation. � We each pay $130 per use
for the tractor and trailer to take care of our boats. � Our club is
looking into mandatory insurance on the boats. � It's crazy to think
many of the boat owners do not carry insurance. � A lot of the club work
is done by volunteers and that all helps to keep fees low.
� We all get floating slips with power outlets and water taps. Damien
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:27:59 GMT
From: "djhaug...@juno.com" <djhaug...@juno.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.
Message-ID: <20131021.112759.1822...@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Okay guys, I'm planning a new waste system. I'm going with the Raritan PHC
head and a new holding tank. I currently have a very old Jabsco head and a
bladder holding tank. I really don't like the bladder. It has worked okay
but, one day it will fail and it will be disgusting! I just want rid of it...
I'm looking for ideas on the design. i.e. Where to install the tank and how
to pipe it. I've been reading and I was thinking to try and install about a
16-18 gallon tank, that conforms to the hull, behind the head.
However, after a closer look on Saturday, I'm not sure there is enough room
there. I was kind of hoping to install it there in order to pipe up a gravity
drain for when I'm in an area where that is possible. This would also keep the
hose runs very short and I could easily vent and pipe the pump-out fitting in
the side deck above. Of course that would have the need of piping up hill to
get into the tank and make it a bit harder to clear the waste from the ho!
se with every flush. Then I heard it might be better to have the waste run
downhill to the tank. That would create the need of pumping overboard if I
were in an area that allowed it and the need of another pump. I'm not
exactly sure how the pump-out system works when having it done at a pump-out
station. Is it a fitting that attaches to the deck fitting and sucks it up the
hose or, do they run a smaller hose down into the tank and suck it directly out
with their hose? Anyway, As always, any and all advice, insights and colorful
comments are appreciated! DannyLolita1973 Viking 33Westport Point, MA
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:36:32 -0400
From: Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.
Message-ID:
<CAEL16P-QkEApO-54hSL-j=67bu+pgrVfO=g7al4sqe9bjm_...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Danny,
Good luck!
>From the head - discharge hose to Y valve. One branch to a thru-hull,
>one
to the tank. The one to the tank needs a loop in it so it is above the water
line at all times. The pump out connection is at the bottom of the tank and
runs to a deck fitting. The pump-out fitting sits the marinas use inside the
lip of the deck fitting and sucks out everything from there.
The head will do all the work, no other pumps needed.
Where are you going that discharge is legal?
Joel
35/3
Annapolis
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:27 AM, djhaug...@juno.com
<djhaug...@juno.com>wrote:
> Okay guys,
>
> I'm planning a new waste system. I'm going with the Raritan PHC head
> and a new holding tank. I currently have a very old Jabsco head and a
> bladder holding tank. I really don't like the bladder. It has worked
> okay but, one day it will fail and it will be disgusting! I just want
> rid
of it...
>
> I'm looking for ideas on the design. i.e. Where to install the tank
> and how to pipe it. I've been reading and I was thinking to try and
> install about a 16-18 gallon tank, that conforms to the hull, behind
> the
head.
> However, after a closer look on Saturday, I'm not sure there is
> enough room there. I was kind of hoping to install it there in order
> to pipe up a gravity drain for when I'm in an area where that is
> possible. This would also keep the hose runs very short and I could
> easily vent and pipe the pump-out fitting in the side deck above.
>
> Of course that would have the need of piping up hill to get into the
> tank and make it a bit harder to clear the waste from the hose with
> every
flush.
> Then I heard it might be better to have the waste run downhill to the
> tank. That would create the need of pumping overboard if I were in an
> area that allowed it and the need of another pump.
>
> I'm not exactly sure how the pump-out system works when having it done
> at a pump-out station. Is it a fitting that attaches to the deck
> fitting and sucks it up the hose or, do they run a smaller hose down
> into the tank and suck it directly out with their hose?
>
> Anyway, As always, any and all advice, insights and colorful comments
> are appreciated!
>
> Danny
> Lolita
> 1973 Viking 33
> Westport Point, MA
>
> _______________________________________________
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:41:21 -0700
From: Jim Watts <paradigmat...@gmail.com>
To: 1 CnC List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.
Message-ID:
<ca+jz0fcaazkf9kp279qwtfrvdko8_uzdps0+gif016snshr...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Pump-out fittings are a friction fit with the deck outlet. They scare the hell
out of me.
The last one I used, the previous user had turned the open/close lever at the
business end to close before turning the pump off. This left the hose full of
waste up to the shutoff. When I cracked the valve to pump out our tank, there
was some seriously explosive decompression and somebody else's *
stuff* flew everywhere.
I'm glad I don't have to use pumpouts very often, overboard discharge is still
legal most places in Canada; I still make sure it's deep, fast-flowing water
far from land.
On 21 October 2013 08:27, djhaug...@juno.com <djhaug...@juno.com> wrote:
> Okay guys,
>
> I'm planning a new waste system. I'm going with the Raritan PHC head
> and a new holding tank. I currently have a very old Jabsco head and a
> bladder holding tank. I really don't like the bladder. It has worked
> okay but, one day it will fail and it will be disgusting! I just want
> rid
of it...
>
> I'm looking for ideas on the design. i.e. Where to install the tank
> and how to pipe it. I've been reading and I was thinking to try and
> install about a 16-18 gallon tank, that conforms to the hull, behind
> the
head.
> However, after a closer look on Saturday, I'm not sure there is
> enough room there. I was kind of hoping to install it there in order
> to pipe up a gravity drain for when I'm in an area where that is
> possible. This would also keep the hose runs very short and I could
> easily vent and pipe the pump-out fitting in the side deck above.
>
> Of course that would have the need of piping up hill to get into the
> tank and make it a bit harder to clear the waste from the hose with
> every
flush.
> Then I heard it might be better to have the waste run downhill to the
> tank. That would create the need of pumping overboard if I were in an
> area that allowed it and the need of another pump.
>
> I'm not exactly sure how the pump-out system works when having it done
> at a pump-out station. Is it a fitting that attaches to the deck
> fitting and sucks it up the hose or, do they run a smaller hose down
> into the tank and suck it directly out with their hose?
>
> Anyway, As always, any and all advice, insights and colorful comments
> are appreciated!
>
> Danny
> Lolita
> 1973 Viking 33
> Westport Point, MA
>
> _______________________________________________
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
--
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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