Guys, One other point about unapproved lights -- The other boater would have to prove that the accident occurred because he could not see the lights. If your 1 nm light is only visible for .8 nm, how did that cause the accident? (and who is going to test the bulb?)
Joel On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > What you say is true, Bill; if you change the bulb the light fixture is no > longer certified. Heck, if your wiring is corroded and delivers less than > the voltage specified for testing, I’d bet is it no longer certified as > well. > > > > But nowhere in the Consolidated Federal Regulations can I find a > requirement that the operator of a boat need to use a certified light. Only > that you meet the COLREGS requirements, unless your boat is over 65 ft and > in passenger service for more than 6 passengers – and then you need to also > meet the UL compliance requirement. (If I learned nothing else in getting > my Masters License, I did learn how to navigate the Consolidated Federal > Regulations. I’m sure there are different but similar requirements for > Canadian boaters, but wouldn’t have a clue as to where to look for them.) > The requirement for certified lights applies only to a boat manufacturer. > > > > That said, your point is about evidence in a potential admiralty court > case. Plaintiffs’ attorney can make any statement they want – true or not – > during a case. It is the responsibility of the defense attorney to refute > the stuff that is wrong or untrue. (They actually taught this stuff to my > ex-wife, who is a retired Judge, in law school.) The claim about lights not > certified could be used to cloud the other issues in a hearing and mitigate > the size of a settlement. > > > > But remember, no case involving a boat accident is about absolute > liability. COLREGS rule 2 makes every maritime accident a shared liability > event. So if you do go to court you are arguing about the portion of > liability for each party involved, and arguing about the size of the > settlement. If your lights are substandard or not even turned on, the other > party is still required by Rule 5 (lookout) and Rule 6 (safe speed) to see > you and avoid you. So the condition of your lights will not absolve him of > responsibility – but they might reduce his damages if he hits you. > > > > And unless your boat or your life is a whale of a lot more valuable than > mine, the insurance company will likely find it a lot less expensive to pay > the damages rather than incur the expense of lawyers and trial to reduce > the amount they have to pay. > > > > > > Rick Brass > > Washington, NC > > > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill > Bina via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs > > > > Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing > light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it > is no longer legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. > If you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light > you were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted > as complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all > if your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. > It is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and > convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements > is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. > > Bill Bina > > On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: > > The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of > the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a > Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event. > > > > 33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters > (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready > reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules. > > > > As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the > light manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE > A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If > you are a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any > lighting device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the > requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns). > > > > Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug > into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep > as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither > are certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified. > > > > I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR > Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons > carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with > COLREGS 22 & 23. > > > > For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer > passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must > have navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections > of the International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of > more than 198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that > meet UL 1104 "Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard > specified by the Commandant. > > > > Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility > and patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the > current COLREGS aboard. > > > > If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters > you must comply with the COLREGS. > > > > And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of > the COLREGS. > > > > I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got > while obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a > certified light, use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in > building your boat - but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23. > > > > Rick Brass > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to worry about > this USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's license. Right? > > :) > > Cheers, Russ > *Sweet *35 mk-1 > > > > > > > > *If you dream, dream big.If you can think of a better world you will have > a better world.If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would > taste...*At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote: > > > And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old > fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs. Many said no as the whole > unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be certified. And that was why for a > long period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the > approval process was long and involved and many companies did not want to > expend the $ or effort… > > So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole > fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident] > might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming > with any coverage? > > Any current thoughts? > > *From:* CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bill Coleman via CnC-List > *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Subject:* Stus-List Running Lights > > Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running > lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at > the boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have > white coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white. > Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am > really confused! > > Regards, > > Bill Coleman > C&C 39 > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > > > Email address: > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page > at: > > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > -- Joel 301 541 8551
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