No one cares until someone gets hurt. I recall a boat built in the 1800s with no electrical system being rammed at night while anchored. The powerboat skipper that hit them sued them for using a kerosene anchor light and IIRC the wood boat lost :(
I think the boats name is Elf and she is still around. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 10:39 AM To: Bill Bina - gmail; CNC boat owners, cnc-list Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs We may be overthinking the LED bulb and running lights, brightness, visibilty, distance seen, curve of the earth, CG certification, legal liability, etc. But that's why this list is so fun. Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md _____ From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 10:08:48 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs It is also important to consider mounting height when calculating how far away something can be seen. You lose distance due to curvature of the earth. Two 6 foot tall men standing on shores 6 miles across from each other cannot see each others heads, even without throwing even an inch of wave height into the mix. The "high spot" between them is only 3 miles from their respective vantage point. :-) Bill Bina On 10/31/2014 9:50 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them, are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do not meet modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on the pulpit which is MUCH more visible. Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no longer legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. Bill Bina On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event. 33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules. As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns). Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified. I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23. For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104 "Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by the Commandant. Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility and patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the current COLREGS aboard. If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters you must comply with the COLREGS. And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of the COLREGS. I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got while obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a certified light, use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in building your boat - but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to worry about this USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's license. Right? :) Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 If you dream, dream big. If you can think of a better world you will have a better world. If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste... At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote: And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs. Many said no as the whole unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be certified. And that was why for a long period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval process was long and involved and many companies did not want to expend the $ or effort… So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident] might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming with any coverage? Any current thoughts? From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at the boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have white coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white. Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am really confused! Regards, Bill Coleman C&C 39 _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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