Dwight:

In Bill's first post on this issue, he said "there was no seepage around the bolts. However there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these are seeping water at about 100ml/day"

He is not talking about rain water coming down the mast every day. He said "there are cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts that are seeping water", That to me is an entirely different issue.

Torquing the keel bolts and sealing the C&C smile is always a good plan but if I were Bill, I would want to know more about the 'cracks in the sump between the keel bolts that are seeping water'.

Keel bolts leaking water is one thing, cracks in the sump between the keel bolts leaking water is an entirely different issue. Think about it!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.




On 2014/11/26 9:13 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
Bill

1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, */Alianna/*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net <mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net>


On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

    I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was
    slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock,
    sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out
    next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad
    something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what
    repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it
    is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the
    cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably
    from the C&C smile to the hull-keel interface.

    I am bobing about on a 750'x137' drillship watching a cold front
    pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea's don't look
    too bad from 80' up - maybe 10-14'. check out:
    
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA

    /Bill Hoyne/
    Mithrandir
    '74 C&C35 MkII
    in Victoria,BC




    On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List
    <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

    Currently working on C&C 34 with the famous keel smile.
    Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
    After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts
    to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers
    cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using  West System.
    Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5
    in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill.
    Will know if it works after haul out next year.
    Minimal cost so worth the try.


    On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
    <mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

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        Today's Topics:

           1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
        <mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net>)
           2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
           3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
              (Marek Dziedzic)


        ----------------------------------------------------------------------

        Message: 1
        Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +0000
        From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
        <mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net>
        To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
        Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
        Message-ID:
<134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
        
<mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry>>

        Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

        I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers
        ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got
        worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard
        grounding.

        I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with
        lots of C&C experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding
        damage.  I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol
        Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$.

        At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake
        Ontario to myself.

        Mike
        Atacama CnC 33
        Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
        Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le
        r?seau de Bell.

        ------------------------------

        Message: 2
        Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +0000
        From: "Della Barba, Joe" <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
        <mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
        To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>"
        <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
        Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
        Message-ID:
<650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
        <mailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov>>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

        Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a
        trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this
        that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it
        opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :(
        His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the
        keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy
        outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it
        is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last
        "repair". Also you might want to make SURE that is where the
        water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge
        and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel
        structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the
        boat aren't common.

        Joe Della Barba
        Coquina
        C&C 35 MK I
        From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
        <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Robert
        Abbott via CnC-List
        Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM
        To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
        <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>; Bill Hoyne
        Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

        Bill:

        I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.....have someone
        knowledgeable inspect your boat.  It is not normal to have
        cracks in the sump that are leaking water.

        I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how
        significant they are.

        Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?

        Rob Abbott
        AZURA
        C&C 32 - 84
        Halifax, N.S.



        On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
        Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and
        get their opinion.

        Jim Watts
        Paradigm Shift
        C&C 35 Mk III
        Victoria, BC

        On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List
        <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
        <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com><mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
        <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>> wrote:
        I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold
        for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing
        around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was
        a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts
        were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with
        some 3/8" 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I
        removed the bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage
        around the bolts - a good sign I think. However there are
        some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these
        are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn't go out for a
        sail so assume there would be more water ingress when the
        keel is under some stress. Is there some way to seal these
        cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from
        the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I
        just pour some epoxy in the the sump area?

        Thanks!!

        Bill Hoyne
        Mithrandir
        '74 C&C35 MkII
        in Victoria,BC


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