Sure glad I have an Atomic 4!
-----Original Message-----
From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: 2015-08-11 12:27 PM
To: "C&C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
I checked the specs of the universal glo-plugs and they average 2 ohms. This
equates to ~6amps times 4 cylinders equals ~24amps. That's a pretty good
amount of current draw. The way Maine Sailor makes it sound the panel is the
choke point and all the current for the glo-plugs AND starter solenoid has to
come from the panel and through various plug connectors and relatively small
gauge wire. Each adding it's own amount of additional resistance. Not to
mention poor connections, burnt contacts, and corrosion. I'm not surprised at
all to see the voltage dragged down enough to prevent the starter solenoid from
being able to close.
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 11, 2015 11:41 AM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
In about 20 years of working on boats, mine and others’, the photo is the first
Universal panel I have seen with an ammeter instead of a voltmeter on the panel.
Of course the glow plugs will draw down the starting voltage. When you power
the glow plugs you are running ten amps or so across a couple thousand ohms of
resistance to create heat. If your battery is OK, and of normal capacity, the
voltage loss to the system will be negligible – maybe 0.1v or less. But that
happens any time you put a load on the system. Doesn’t the voltage shown on
your battery monitor drop from around 12.6 to 12.4 or 12.5 when you turn on the
lights in the cabin? Same thing.
The only way that the glow plugs will cause a significant drop in the starting
voltage is if you have a direct short in the wiring or a defective glow plug
that is shorted to the engine block. Then you get a direct short from battery
to ground through the engine panel wiring harness, and you let all the smoke
out of the engine wiring harness. (Sorry, old electrical engineering joke
coming back to haunt me.) Which is why there is a typically a 20 amp fuse in
the power wire that supplies the engine panel.
Putting a solenoid into the system so the button engages the solenoid and the
solenoid powers the glow plugs really doesn’t accomplish anything. Unless you
have the unlikely confluence of a short in the solenoid and a short in a glow
plug, in which case you get a short direct from battery to ground and you let
the smoke out of the whole boat.
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 10:03 AM
To: C&C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Universal Engine panel wiring
I don't have a universal or any experience with one but it sounds to me like
the glow plugs are drawing down the starting voltage. I would suggest
installing a solenoid for the glow plugs in addition to a solenoid for the
starter. The 2 articles below talk about poorly wired universal panels and
make similar suggestions.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_wiring_harness_upgrade
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solder_trouble_shooting
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 11, 2015 8:50 AM, "Neil Gallagher via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
The power to the starter button is supposed to come off the switched terminal
of the glow plug button. You are supposed to to have to push the glow plug
switch and the starter switch every time you start, as the glow plug switch
also powers both the electric fuel pump until the oil pressure builds up, and
silences the low oil pressure alarm. Once the oil pressure rises, its switch
powers the fuel pump.
I put an M30B in our club launch and it has the same setup.
Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY
On 8/10/2015 11:15 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
Since I got my boat, I have been bothered by the fact that the engine will not
start in the way it is described in the manual unless plugged into shore power.
The manual says to hold the glow plug button for about 30 seconds and then
while continuing to hold that button in, push the start button. When I do
that, the starter does not turn over. If I release the glow plug button and
push the start button the engine starts fine. My father (retired electrical
engineer) and I (genetic engineer- useless in this case but sounds good) spent
some time trying to diagnose the problem this weekend and found two interesting
things:
1. The buttons both tested fine in terms of their switch function. We then
tested power at the engine. There is a heavy red cable coming from the battery
to the starter measured 12V. The red-yellow wire from the start button is
attached to what I am presuming is the solenoid (the wiring diagram in the
manual does not show a solenoid). We only measured 8 volts at the solenoid
when the button is pushed, but 12 volts everywhere else. So that probably
explains the fact that both the glow plugs and starter won’t work at the same
time because we appear to be losing 4 volts in the solenoid. I will pull the
starter next winter and have someone test it unless someone has an alternative
suggestion.
2. The wiring diagram in the manual (Fig 2 on page 13) shows the power from
the key switch coming into the glow plug button and then a wire from the other
lead to the start button. The manual shows that wire running from the
downstream side of the glow plug switch so that the start button should only be
energized when the glow plug button is pushed (as the manual describes). If
that were the case, the I would not be able to start the engine with only the
start button. Nevertheless, it does start the engine. Tracing the wires, we
found that the bridging wire actually came from the hot side of the glow plug
switch, so that either button will work independently as both are always
powered. What I don’t understand is why you would wire it the other way (as
the manual shows) since that would remove the ability to start the engine
without the glow plugs (as in an already warm engine). I don’t know if the PO
or some yard mechanic made that change or if it is indicated wrong in the
manual, so I am curious how other Universal panels are wired. The way it is
actually wired makes more sense to me than what is in the manual unless I am
missing something.
Thanks- Dave
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
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