Martin, You own X Dimension? she was one of 2 43s owned by my friends who kept them here in Marion.
If you have any questions I can pass them on. Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 11/14/16 22:34 (GMT-05:00) To: Martin DeYoung <martin.deyo...@outlook.com> Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C&C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) Martin Great to connect with you! (Hull #1, eh?) Yes, our custom C&C 43' is X Dimension. We call her XD. Here is more about her: http://sailing.mit.edu/bluewater. She sails like a dream! I love that boat. It will be fantastic to get the C&C 43' drawings from you. I'll email you separately about that. FYI to the list -- I called the maritime museum in Kingston, ON, earlier today. The museum is relocating, and the archives will be inaccessible at least until late spring 2017. Since we can't get anything from them until then, thanks even more for all the help here! Also answering to Ken, Leslie, Rob, Michael - thanks for the links, pictures, and related details. Very helpful to finally "see" that joint, even though ours is slightly different (T shaped toe rail, bolted on both sides). I am pretty sure the toe rail on XD is the original one. We have never changed it, and the previous owner never mentions changing it in the notes he left for us. It's unlikely that the original owner(s) ever replaced toe rail that was relatively new at their time. It must be the original. It seems the consensus is no vinyl. So butyl on the hull flange bonds to butyl under the deck edge, all that bolted through, incorporating the aluminum toe rail? More butyl between deck and toe rail, so I guess that seals the bolts? Since people asked, I don't have photos of the worst worn out parts on our toe rail, sorry. The photos I posted show only the corrosion. If we were to reuse some of the toe rail, how would one clean and treat that? What about custom extrusion, if we can't find a match for the T-rail? And wouldn't the hull and deck separate, once the bolts are removed? It seems essential to do one section at a time. How big a section? Finally, out of curiosity, I found Evening Star (with the teak rail) listed for sale online. She is beautiful! But XD is better. :) Violeta On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Martin DeYoung <martin.deyo...@outlook.com<mailto:martin.deyo...@outlook.com>> wrote: Violeta, Lee Youngblood forwarded your question and several replies to me. I have been tied up with some business related extra work (long story for another time) and have not been able to follow the cnc-list as closely as I would like. I am one of two owners of a 1971 C&C 43, hull #1. We have spent the last 2 years restoring the deck after 40+ years or hard use racing and cruising. We have owned it since 1998 and have worked on almost every significant system, piece of the rig, and significant areas of the hull and deck. I have not done any extensive work on the toe rail but am reasonable familiar with this era of C&C's and especially the 43's and 39's. I have some pictures of several 43's being built at Bruckmann's that show a little detail and I have copies from the Maritime museum of the 43 build drawings. >From one of your comments I believe the 43 you are referring to was once named >X Bar R or something similar and was donated to a college by the inventor of >the bar code. If that is the same boat, its construction will be very similar >to Calypso's (our 43 here in Seattle) The deck joint is basically an inward laminated flange that is part of the hull, with the outer edge of the deck overlaying it then through bolted, through the toe rail. Butyl tape was normal the factory sealant. If your boat has something other than Butyl tape it was added by a past owner. One of the other lister's post included a drawing of a C&C hull to deck joint. Take out the vinyl rub rail and it is much the same concept. I have not removed a C&C aluminum extruded toe rail myself but have read some details and discussed with several people who have. One of the important details was controlling the "stored energy" in a long length of the bent aluminum toe rail extrusion. Removing a short section should be easy for a person accustom to messing about in boats. Removing a long section may require a little more thought and planning but is not beyond a DIY effort. Why do you want to remove some toe rail. If it is to stop a leak, make sure all the through bolts are tight first. On Calypso I have found that most hull/deck bolts can use 1/4 to 1/2 turn tightening every few years. If it is because of excessive wear and corrosion or a particular slot wearing through you may have easier options than removing a length of toe rail. If the toe rail base has corroded enough to weaken one or two bolt locations that may justify the extra project. I do know of one "Limited" C&C 43 from Bruckmann's custom shop, likely launched in 1975 or 76 that had its entire aluminum toe rail removed and replaced by a teak toe rail. That boat is now know as "Evening Star". It's last known location was San Francisco and was/has been listed for sale. In my opinion, the hull to deck joint modification would not be significantly weakened if the new fastenings are correctly sized and installed. I do recommend you discuss that type of project with a naval architect knowledgeable of C&Cs. Here is the best email address to contact me if you have any follow up C&C 43 questions or would like a copy of the 43 build pictures. Martin DeYoung calyps...@outlook.com<mailto:calyps...@outlook.com> Calypso 1971 C&C 43 Seattle (This is a new email address as I sold the business that hosted my earlier email addresses. I have moved most my boating related activities to the personal account.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: 2 Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 23:40:40 -0500 From: robertlmazza <robertlma...@gmail.com<mailto:robertlma...@gmail.com>> To: C&C Mailing List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C&C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) Boats built in the C&C Custom Shop generally did not use the vinyl rubrail sandwiched between the hull flange and deck. Rob ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 04:40:02 -0500 From: "Michael Clow" <mdc...@warmgear.com<mailto:mdc...@warmgear.com>> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C&C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) Message-ID: <000601d23e5b$1350bc90$39f235b0$@warmgear.com<http://warmgear.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I rebedded the aft half of my toe rail three years ago and the leaks stopped. The link below show a diagram from C&C of my joint along with a few comments I made after doing the job. http://desiresailing.org/ToeRailJointDiagram.pdf Michael Clow Desire, C&C 32, Lake St. Clair -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/13/16, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C&C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Violeta Ivanova" <vmivan...@gmail.com<mailto:vmivan...@gmail.com>> Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 11:45 AM Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might find scale drawings. I will contact the museum. Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally. I thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who responded, so I don't send multiple emails. Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the reasons for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the decision to replace the toe rail. The C&C 43' belongs to my university, and I am one of her skippers. Great boat! I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am poking around the website now - great resource! We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me know. Violeta >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Violeta, All the drawings for the C&C 43 reside in the C&C collection in the archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy of the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings relating specifically to your 43. However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period. A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore Yachts in St. Catherines, ON. Rob Mazza >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Violeta Ivanova Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C&C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) Greetings all. Might someone here help with questions about the custom C&C 43' from 1973? This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect the hull/deck joint. Some specific questions: 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C&C 43'? 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint? 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? Good advice will be appreciated.
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