My experience is with a C&C 40. When we first got my boat it had a functioning ST4000+ wheel pilot. It was fine motoring and sailing in light winds. Based on the literature, our boat is technically too heavy for the ST4000+.
My main complaints for the ST4000+ Wheel Pilot: 1) it was noisy...and it is not a pleasant noise as load increases. Think nails on a chalkboard 2) when it got overpowered the AP gave up and simply stopped controlling 3) it was erratic but this might be due to compass placement or the fact it always seemed behind the boat. The PO installation was also missing the rudder feedback sensor as well as one of the wheel pilot connections to the wheel. The first thing(s) I did were to add the third wheel mount as well as the rudder feedback. This helped a little but the AP was still unreliable. I view the AP as a safety feature so it needs to be reliable. I decided to upgrade to a below deck AP. I chose to add an Octopus hydraulic ram. One nice thing about the ST4000+ is it has a clutch output so in theory it can drive a below deck unit with minimum modifications. The ST4000+ does not have much current drive capability. I believe it can supply a max of 5 amps. Most hydraulic drives require more current so I added a solid state H-Bridge to interface to the hydraulic pump. This was about another $100-$150. Finally you need to change the configuration to enable the rudder feedback and clutch output (set the unit to be an ST5000+). We now have a very reliable and capable AP. Looking to the future, the current Raymarine offering has the EV-100, EV-200, EV-300 etc. The EV-100 is similar in capability to the ST4000+ BUT it does not have the ability to drive a clutch. This is critical for any below deck AP. The EV-200 can drive a clutch BUT is about twice the price of the EV-100. This is an important distinction because if someone was buying an AP and they were unsure if the wheel pilot was good enough....then it is a big gamble. If the wheel pilot does not work you have to replace a bunch of stuff to convert your new AP to drive a below deck AP on top of the below deck actuator. If it was me, anything 35' or larger would automatically be a below deck system. On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:31 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a > PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works > well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the > mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much > when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that. > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales >> guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was >> pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder >> feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the >> rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to >> dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely >> superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work >> with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback. >> >> >> Bill Coleman >> >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google >>> “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback >>> signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the >>> control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they >>> are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 >>> years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the >>> autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier >>> a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and >>> shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit >>> in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. >>> >>> Hans R >>> S/V Ete’ >>> 1982 C&C37 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Chuck, >>>> My 1982 C&C37 came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. >>>> The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are >>>> considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected >>>> central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random >>>> puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, >>>> etc. All give it panic attacks 😱 and me the need for a beer once I am >>>> safely back on the dock.🥴 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is >>>> often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have >>>> found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech >>>> sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install >>>> a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. >>>> FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement >>>> for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to >>>> replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and >>>> otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and >>>> a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I >>>> am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly >>>> self-endangering marine situations 🙄 but am no champion or truly >>>> experienced old sea dog. >>>> So … happily not dead yet. 😊 >>>> Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … >>>> All the best, >>>> Hans R >>>> S/V Ete’ 1982 C&C37 >>>> Shilshole Bay Marina >>>> Seatlle >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List < >>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> I have a C&C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which >>>> is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra >>>> Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 >>>> kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that >>>> connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be >>>> replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has >>>> become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder >>>> when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! >>>> >>>> Don Kern >>>> *Fireball, *C&C35 Mk2 >>>> Bristol, RI >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >>>> >>>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine >>>> EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever >>>> engine control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the >>>> control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have >>>> attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine >>>> control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot >>>> motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends >>>> below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers >>>> on port and starboard. >>>> >>>> I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a >>>> wheel pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place >>>> is to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as >>>> well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just >>>> simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out >>>> West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far >>>> more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to >>>> mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson >>>> tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for any advice. >>>> >>>> Chuck Gilchrest >>>> >>>> S/V Half Magic >>>> >>>> 1983 Landfall 35 >>>> >>>> Padanaram, MA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>>> Stu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>>> Stu >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help >>>> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - >>>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>>> Thanks - Stu >>>> >>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help >>>> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - >>>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>>> Thanks - Stu >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help >>> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> Thanks - Stu >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help >>> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> Thanks - Stu >> >> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help >> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> Thanks - Stu > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks > - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
