Bruce,
You really want to rethink this whole topic before doing anything. I have the same boat (“Impromptu” C&C 38MKIIC build in the Bruckman shop) that Rick has only hull #125. It also came with lots of sail handling gear like the dual bayonet track car, and the dual bayonet spinnaker poles and the reaching strut as well. All of that has been shelved like Rick’s and in today’s view this gear is likely obsolete. I’ve removed all of those deck winches and pole devices and now only use a carbon fiber whisker pole that mounts inboard to the sliding track car with a loop. The pole mounts into stanchion mounts on the port side of the foredeck when not being used. Being carbon fiber, it can be handled on deck with minimal crew. All of the previous comments amount to a consensus that you do not want to use that ring under the gooseneck………..and that you do not want to underestimate the loads on the pole or mast when using any spinnaker system. Things happen fast and are usually bad. We race Impromptu almost exclusively………..I just donated the original spinnakers to Sea Bags, and we only use 1 ASYM as the off wind sail other than our #1 genoa. We NEVER use the pole with the ASYM. The pole is only useful on light wind days with the #1 to keep the sail out and not drooping. An interesting rating perspective…………..here in NE, if you do not declare a spinnaker pole, you are credited with 9 seconds. If we race PHRF, our cruising rating is 132……..our racing rating is 129……it almost NEVER makes sense to go “Racing” the 3 seconds difference never makes the general confusion and sail handling circus worthwhile. We have recently gone to the ORR-EZ rating system which does not take into account poles, etc. However, the same issue results. Our rating with a spinnaker of any kind means that I have to give e.g. a very fast “tricked out” Islander 36, more than 15-20 seconds per mile…………when we convert the TOT to TOD. Our Cruising rating almost equals his racing rating………which he always uses……….. We’re just getting too old to deal with the skill levels of handling any spinnaker. So, think about what you intend to do with the boat. And how good your “able” crew is in race situations………… As a base reference, Impromptu races (successfully) with 2 Pontos (now Karver) 4 speed winches, and 2 Barient roof top winches for halyards and spinnaker sheets. NO babystay, and a clean foredeck. 1 whisker pole (that gets used less than 4-5 times per season). A sail selection of a full batten main and 3 foresails, 155%, 135% and 110%, and 6 crew, average age in the mid 70’s. If you take the racing situation out of the project, handling any spinnaker in any cruising plan still has the earlier and above issues. Keep safety of you and your crew as a priority………… Have Fun, Ron Casciato From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 11:59 AM To: 'Stus-List' <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> Subject: Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+? Imzadi (an old IOR boat) came with 2 spin halyards, a track and line adjustable ring car on the front of the mast, and a ring on either side of the mast for use with a reaching strut. Her sail inventory has a 135 genoa (set up with a foam luff, for reefing down to about 90% on the furler) and an asymmetrical chute tacked to the anchor roller array about 2 feet in front of the headstay. I’ve put the reaching strut and spin pole into storage (available to any lister who needs either one in exchange for a donation to Stu and cost of shipping). I carry two whisker poles on Imzadi for the headsails. As others have said, there are pretty high forces on the attachment points when using a pole – particularly with the spin when running. So a strong attachment point on the mast is needed, and use of the ring at the gooseneck is probably contraindicated. But I think you are mistaken in thinking that you will have the pole in contact with the rigging. It’s true that the clew of bot the genoa and a-sail will be aft of the rigging when reaching, but in any sort of wind the sails will be held out by nature and you won’t be using the pole. I use my poles for deep reaching and running in light air. So the pole is never more than about 60 degrees off the bow to hold out the clew of a sail and keep it from collapsing in light air – anything above about 8-10 knots of steady wind seems to keep the sail drawing without the pole to hold the clew. I use both poles (and both sails) to run wing and wing to run essentially dead downwind when cruising. When doing the wing and wing thing, the poles get attached to the rings for the reaching strut. The genoa tack point does not change, so the clew can move up and down over only a small range. The tack of the a-sail can move up and down depending on the wind (as with any spinnaker) but the probable range is something like 4 or 5 feet max. The pole is probably best at 90 degrees to the mast when connected to the clew of the sail, but I suspect a small angle is acceptable – at least it has been for me. Maybe you could figure out the range of clew height for you a-sail – min and max off the deck – and install a strong ring on either side of the mast as an attaching point for the pole at the midpoint of that range? The pole would have a slight up or down angle some of the time, but you would only be using it in light winds when the compression load on the pole would be low. And two rings would be a lot less complex (and expensive) than installing a track and car on the front of the mast. Rick Brass Imzadi C&C 38 mk2 #47 la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 #225 Washington, NC From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:28 AM To: Stus-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bruce.whitmo...@gmail.com <mailto:bruce.whitmo...@gmail.com> > Subject: Stus-List Whisker pole with a 37/40+? Hello all, I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker pole on our 37/40+. The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard. Nor does it have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker. I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large asymmetrical spinnaker. Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom. I don't think it would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring? A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0 The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if not all the time I would be using it. In the case of the big asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet. Can anyone provide any insights? Thank you!!! Bruce Whitmore 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis" Madeira Beach, FL
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