It is good to know there is still solid support for Objective-C UI, thank you for the information John. It has felt like the support is not there the last few years, with much of the documentation "archived" and the new documentation focused on Swift. Presently, it is hard to justify native development on macOS because there is very little information and a lot of uncertainty about the future. Simply predicting how much upkeep will be required to keep an application running for 5 years is a tough question to answer. When justifying a redevelopment or a new project, the native macOS option is very low in the list of options because of this.
From a user's perspective, dropping 32-bit is the reason that I will probably not update to Catalina any time soon. I rely on older pieces of software, and there's a few games I enjoy which will no longer work. Upgrading will simply get in the way of what I want to do. Never say never though, 10.16 might have some amazing feature I can't be without, like dark mode 2.0, and I'll be forced to upgrade! On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 08:19, John McCall via Cocoa-dev < cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: > On 2 Oct 2019, at 15:03, Jeff Evans via Cocoa-dev wrote: > > Here’s another small developer’s perspective: > > Practica Musica has been around since 1987 in one form or another > > (originally in 68000 assembler!). We’ve sold a lot of Macs for > > Apple. The upcoming version 7 is still C++ with Objective-C where > > necessary for the UI. We refuse to use Swift, another > > platform-specific language: the project is very large and we can’t > > rewrite hundreds of files on a whim. Swift may be nice, but it’s > > not necessary. > > I haven’t been paying close attention and can’t tell if the > > concern in this discussion is over any hints that Apple might again > > force a major change on existing apps, but if there have been such > > hints let me add another voice to the chorus: Apple really needs to > > keep its installed base. > > The new Windows version of Practica Musica is 100% plain old C++, > > using Microsoft’s new C++/winrt, so mostly only the UI classes > > differ from the Mac version. That is a clean, easy, fast system and I > > can trust them not to abandon it any time soon. Using their new system > > was entirely voluntary; the old ways are still viable but the new one > > is just better. > > I hope Apple can borrow that attitude from MS. I worry about > Apple > > pulling the rug out from under our Mac projects somewhere down the > > line. If they do we’ll have to abandon the platform, with great > > regrets. Switching to Intel chips was unavoidable; we understood that; > > but if, for example, they deprecate the existing Obj-C UI they’ll > > leave a lot of installed base behind. > > Don’t worry, ObjC UI is not being deprecated. There are new APIs in > Catalina that are Swift-only, but that does not and will not prevent you > from continuing to write ObjC applications that simply don’t use those > APIs. Apple is well aware that ObjC is a core language for most of our > developer community, and that even developers who are primarily writing > new code in Swift are usually integrating that into substantial bodies > of existing ObjC code. > > Catalina does drop support for 32-bit applications. Since Carbon has > never been supported on 64-bit macOS, this means that Carbon is no > longer supported, after 7 years of formal deprecation and a few more > years of “writing on the wall”. That is what some people are upset > about. > > John. > > > > > Jeff Evans > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Richard Charles via Cocoa-dev > > <cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Turtle Creek Software via Cocoa-dev > >> <cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: > >> > >> Sadly, we just decided to abandon the Cocoa update for our app. > > > > Great historical overview from a small developers perspective. Perhaps > > you should send this email to Tim Cook. It might some attention. Just > > a thought. > > > > --Richard Charles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/jevans%40ars-nova.com > > > > This email sent to jev...@ars-nova.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rjmccall%40apple.com > > > > This email sent to rjmcc...@apple.com > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/thesquib%40gmail.com > > This email sent to thesq...@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. 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