It's difficult for me to understand this due to different ranking
systems and pro ratings vs amateur ratings. I see here listed as a 4
dan player on this page:
http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/htm/ki000343.htm
Is that 4 dan pro? My understanding is something like this:
kyu player are casual players (or weak tournament players)
low dan players are something like advanced amateurs or experts and weak
masters in chess.
Pro's are like super high dan players and there is not very much
difference between ranks compared to regular dan players. I have heard
that a 1d professional will beat a 9d professional with 3 or 4 stones.
So a 1d pro is something like a 7 or 8d+ amateur?
Is this all "roughly" correct?
So I assume that Aoba Kaori is a 4d professional? That would relate to
something in the ballpark of 9 or 10d amateur if there were such a
thing. And with 8 stones handicap, this implies that CrazyStone did
what a 2d+ would have done, or it is weaker than 2d but got lucky. So
it's "performance rating" for that one game is lower bounded at around 1
or 2 dan. Since it won the game we could pick 2 dan as a better lower
bound guess although since it won we do not have a reasonable upper
bound guess on it's performance except our own credulity.
Does what I said make any sense? I am not a go player and I'm not very
comfortable with this guesswork. In chess, if you beat a player I am
used to thinking in terms of setting a performance rating of around 400
ELO higher for that one game. I know this is not precise, but I also
think of 400 ELO subtracted from the player you beat as a kind of
"estimated" lower bound on your strength. If you beat a 2500 ELO chess
player, it's a relatively safe bet that you are at least 2100 ELO in
strength although technically there is a chance you could lose to
anybody, even a random move generator.
I know this isn't precise language, but how many ranks would give us
around 90 - 95% confidence of superiority? If I beat a 5 dan player,
could you say that it's "very likely" I am at least 3 dan in strength?
I'm thinking that if we estimate Aoba at 10d amateur and CrazyStone wins
with 8 stone handicap, it is roughly equivalent to beating a 2d player
without handicap and that we can subtract 2 stones to say that with
pretty high confidence CrazyStone is playing at least 1 kyu (but that's
it's much more likely Crazy Stone is stronger than this - after all it
performed in this one game at least as well as 2d player.)
- Don
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 16:28 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote:
> terry mcintyre wrote:
> > Congratulations!
> >
>
> Thanks.
>
> > I'm dying for details! What was the time limit?
>
> The organizers asked that the program should play at a constant time (30
> second) per move. The sgf file contains time stamps (you can see the
> time with gogui, for instance). I don't know what was her time control,
> but she apparently played at the same pace as the program.
>
> > Did the game end on time or by resignation at move 179?
> >
>
> She resigned.
>
> > The pro was Aoba Kaori, yes?
> >
>
> Yes.
>
> The only other information I have about the match are these pages in
> Japanese:
> https://secure1.gakkai-web.net/gakkai/fit/program/html/event/event.html#6
> http://www.ipsj.or.jp/10jigyo/fit/fit2008/events.html#1-4-1
>
> I hope the organizers can send me some photos tomorrow. Then I will set
> up a web page and tell the list.
>
> Rémi
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> computer-go@computer-go.org
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