Since "ageism" has been mentioned, I'd like to share an idea I've often had. I wonder if anyone thinks it's a good idea, or if it's already done at any contra dances. What if one dance per evening, perhaps in the first half, were done at a slightly slower tempo, and featured choreography that allowed for some standing around. Perhaps a dance like Chorus Jig, where some folks could choose to join at the end. Or a more recent dance that still features down time, for example one where the 1's and 2's have separate swings. I think that might be helpful to some elderly dancers, if you have them, and to others who may not have a lot of stamina, or who get dizzy easily, etc. It might be a way to make contra dancing even more welcoming than it already is.
Richard in Arlington, MA > On Mar 12, 2024, at 1:36 PM, Julian Blechner via Contra Callers > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I'm nodding with a lot of comments from the last couple days. Louise > articulated some base concepts clearly, which a lot of y'all expanded on. > > There are some contradictory ideas about gender and sexuality with dance, and > I think we in general tend to shy away from delving too deeply in public > discussion. I've been accused of "shaming" people for asking why a man may > prefer dancing with women. The thing is, I've also said what I think nearly > everyone - including most/all of the strongest advocates for genderfree > contra - has said: its OK to have preferences for partners. I think it is > sometimes hard to presume these discussions are done assuming the benefit of > good intent, given how much gender and sexuality is an enormous political and > civil rights topic in the US and most Western nations. But, I presume this > good intent, and I think nearly everyone here does, too, so, I'm taking > another stab at this topic. > > Here's some ideas I've been chewing over in an attempt to dig into this more > deeply: > - dance is often a courtship ritual > - despite this, inter-gender set dancing has a long tradition in Western > dance, and partnering with someone hasn't really ever been a "oh, I am > attracted to them". To use the overused example of Jane Austen novels, even > then it's clear family dance together, friends dance together, and strangers > dance together just to have any partner. > - children are at our dances. So if a person is choosing partners based on > heterosexual tradition, why, um: EW > > And thus is where the conversation often stops. But to break it down more: > > - So, when someone says they prefer to dance in non-genderfree dances, with a > partner of a different binary-presenting gender person, in trad roles, > there's 2 possible, non-exclusive reasons: > 1. That their choice is about courtship, but "make exceptions" for people > you're not attracted to. Which, I guess is fine in and of itself, but I think > people with this preference often may not consider _just how many exceptions_ > there are. > 2. Their choice is more about embracing traditional gender roles. I'll get > back to this. > > So, in the case of #1, the problem isn't just about "what do we do with the > fact that about 5% of people aren't straight". (And realize the number being > 3 or 4 times as high among surveyed youth, with numbers lower in areas where > anti-lgbtq law and sentiment pervades). > > The problem is also about fat phobia. And bias against people who aren't > "conventionally attractive". And ageism. And disability phobia. Then there's > the even worse case of when a person both claims attraction is their main > factor for partner preference ... and also has a preference for much younger > dancers. :| > > Pushing back on the idea of "partner preference because of sexual preference" > is about all these issues - fatphobia, ageism, disability phobia, > beauty-bias, etc. Now, maybe these things aren't a priority to everyone, but, > I'm going to assume that the overwhelming majority of people on Shared Weight > are interested in most, if not all of them. And, inevitably, remember - > youth, beauty, and able-bodiedness all will fade for everyone. > > In reality, I think partner and role preference for trad-gender-partnering > actually has to do more with gender norms. So insofar as sexual-attraction > for partner preference, I think pushing back, openly, against this, can > benefit dance communities in many ways. And, ultimately if that's not > actually the main reason, then it isn't really harming anyone if we present > it and deal with it with compassion and patience for those having difficulty > with the change. It's not like people aren't going to flirt and meet sexual > partners anyway; we simply don't need to establish dance as a > courtship-by-default space. > > Which leads to look at the other reason, #2: wanting trad gender partnering > because you just like trad gender roles. > > In and of itself, that's fine. If you like ways of having your binary gender > reinforced, there's nothing wrong with that. And while I'm not transgender, > my friends who are and have shifted/come out as a different binary gender > identity deserve to have their gender affirmed, too. While me, personally, I > don't need reinforcement about being man (which is its own privilege), I > respect people's desire for their gender to be respected and celebrated. > > So, what does that mean for dancing? > - Ultimately, as long as people are finding partners and having fun and > people are respectful of anyone they meet in line, great! > - As noted, splitting up people because of gender is disrespectful on several > levels. > - That complaining about "ah, so many neighbors are my same gender" is > setting one's own preference above everyone else's. In short: it's selfish. > - If someone refuses to dance with someone of the same gender (or > nonbinary/agender folks who "don't look like the opposite gender") then > that's selfish. It's not _as_ selfish as the last item, and, generally, if > this is what they choose, I don't see the positive outcomes from pushing it. > > So, if someone wants to just dance trad gender preference in partners, that's > fine to me. > > There is, though, the big Catch 22: > > If someone believes gendered roles "are just role names", while > simultaneously have a strong/sole preference trad-gender-partnering, this is > self-contradictory. That person is trying to have it both ways. > > And so, I leave with the thought: this last bit I see as a core sticking > point to more equality and inclusion at dances. > > How do we address this? > > Can we start looking at this more openly in a way that is compassionate buy > also more direct that we have been? > > In dance, > Julian Blechner > He/Him > Western Mass > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 12:24 PM Tanya Merchant via Contra Callers > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > I’m bumping this for folks who want to talk about gender preference in dance > partners. > > And while I understand the valid social and historical context that would > make inactive roles a good thing for the social part of social dancing, like > Jeff, I’m also really glad we don’t do that much anymore. > > > Tanya H. Merchant > > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 06:01 Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > "The whole point of moving away from Proper to First Couples Improper > or Becket was that you then had people of the opposite gender on both > sides of you in your minor set, so that all Neighbour and Partner > interactions were with the opposite gender" > > That's one advantage for some people, but another advantage of > Improper and Becket is that they make it much easier to have > equal-turn dances, where everyone is 'active' simultaneously. No more > waiting fifteen times through for a chance to be a "one" and then only > getting to dance it twice before the music stops. > > Jeff > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 8:54 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > > > > On the topic of a comfortable swing that maintains the ballroom hold, i'll > > repeat the suggestion I offered a few months back. > > > > As part of our transition to promoting a culture of "we encourage everyone > > to dance with everyone else, regardless of gender, age, level of experience > > or any other factor" - and also as a reaction to covid, we've started > > designating the standard neighbour swing (and default partner swing, if you > > don't know your partner and don't want to experiment), as a "modified > > ballroom hold" - which we call the "elbow hold". > > > > This swing gives a little more space between the couple, without in any way > > compromising the effectiveness of the swing in my opinion. (Though I am > > sure there will be some other opinions out there ;). ) > > > > Ballroom hands same as always. > > > > Other hand cupped around the back of the upper arm of your partner, just > > above the elbow. > > > > Taller person's arm goes above the shorter persons arm. > > > > The more I practice this hold, the more I like it. > > I find it makes me more comfortable with everyone (and in fact, as a > > cisgender woman I find it makes the most difference to me when dancing with > > men, I have found I like having a bit of extra space between me and any man > > who is not my spouse :) ) > > > > I offer this in the spirit of "something my group finds effective". > > > > > > KK > > > > Mar 12, 2024 7:18:46 AM John Sweeney via Contra Callers > > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I once called Chris Page’s dance where the dancers scatter > > individually and find someone with whom to do a Gypsy Meltdown (Gypsy & > > Swing). Many of the ladies got together leaving two men alone in the > > middle of the dance-floor. There was absolutely no way that those two men > > were going to Swing each other in a Ballroom Hold. > > > > There was an article in the EFDSS magazine not so long ago > > about this very challenge. The author was concerned that by going > > gender-free they would lose many good male dancers who weren’t comfortable > > with the situation. > > > > Someone in these threads said that, if you prefer dancing > > with ladies, then there is nothing preventing you from only asking ladies > > for a dance. But what happens when you get in the set and find that every > > Neighbour that you meet is a man! > > > > I and my wife dance many styles, West Coast Swing, Blues, Ceroc, Modern > > Jive, Tango, Salsa, etc. 99% of the time it is one man with one lady (OK, > > I specialise in dancing with two ladies at once, but that is another > > matter!). Occasionally there will be same-sex pairings, and nobody thinks > > anything of it. But it is not being forced on them in the way that contra > > dancing is forcing same-sex pairings as you meet and interact with all your > > Neighbours. > > > > The whole point of moving away from Proper to First Couples Improper or > > Becket was that you then had people of the opposite gender on both sides of > > you in your minor set, so that all Neighbour and Partner interactions were > > with the opposite gender! > > > > I think part of the challenge is the very close Ballroom-Hold Swing which > > many men find too intimate with another man. Of course there are lots of > > symmetrical holds that don’t have the same challenge – you are further > > apart. They don’t have the “Pointy Hand” to help you remember which side > > to finish on. I often use these myself in contra dances when I have a good > > partner, doing a different Swing each time through the dance, but I know > > which side to finish the Swing on. I suspect the Ballroom-Hold Swing is > > too embedded in Contra Dance culture to change now, though, of course, it > > was not always so. > > > > The communities that I call for all want men dancing with ladies. I use > > geographic and positional calling where it helps. I start most sessions by > > saying, “Find a partner, traditionally one man and one lady, but anyone can > > dance with anyone.” 99% of the time they will dance with the opposite > > gender. > > > > Personally I have a real problem with Larks & Robins since I use Men & > > Ladies in my calling. For me the L in Lark makes me think of Ladies, not > > Left. It really hurts my brain! > > > > I am all for anyone dancing with anyone. I dance the Lady’s role and will > > Swing anyone. I love Chaos Lines! (And please don’t assume that you know > > anything about my sexuality!) > > > > I feel that it is very sad that the traditional and historic concepts are > > being lost. Our culture has always been very inclusive, with everyone > > welcome and anyone dancing with anyone they want. I am not at all convinced > > that any benefits outweigh the losses. > > > > Happy dancing, > > > > John > > > > > > > > John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com > > <mailto:j...@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 > > > > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for Dancing > > in Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > > <mailto:contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
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