This discussion reminds me the “Ship of Theseus” paradox (for those who don’t remember it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus).
So Phases depend on the identity criteria assumed for the Entity. Franco Prof. Franco Niccolucci Director, VAST-LAB PIN - U. of Florence Scientific Coordinator ARIADNEplus - PARTHENOS Editor-in-Chief ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH) Piazza Ciardi 25 59100 Prato, Italy > Il giorno 19 feb 2019, alle ore 09:18, Francesco Beretta > <francesco.bere...@cnrs.fr> ha scritto: > > Hi, > > I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not > "connecting a discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical > Things". > > I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases' but it > seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM, to say that > ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of concepts/types — and what > about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are identifiable as such, and do not > change in their identity over time. It seems to be our mind, our belief > (CRMinf I2 Belief), our mental state (Issue 359: mental state), that can > evolve, i.e. the substratum carries new ideas, our classification of concepts > can change, our belief, etc. but this would be about changing of mental > state not about changing of the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the > point ? > > Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as class – > Issue 359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ? > > > > Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh the > identity of the group remains the same, it can have different 'behaviours', > strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related to social life, to an > ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar as 'Phase' is modelled as high > abstraction level class in CRMbase itself, wouldn't be appropriate to > consider also phases in the life of groups ? > > If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal entity > 'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or characteristic > identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical Things do not belong to > the same class, right? By the way I was wondering why E74 Group is not > subclass of Legal Object – E72. But if it was, this wouldn't arrange things, > I assume, because, ont the one side, having phases in not the intension of > the Legal Object class and, on the other side, there's the E90 Symbolic > Object subclass there which wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have > indeed ? > > All the best > > Francesco > > > > > > > > > > Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit : >> Dear Martijn, >> >> On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote: >>> Dear Martin, >>> >>> Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 Physical >>> Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as well.... >> Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but try to >> define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut "behavior". >> Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple trajectory through >> space-time: Any change makes the previous disappear. Therefore, substantial >> evolutionary steps can be represented with a begin and ending on a >> time-line.That is a concept I can perceive as a sort of "phase". Therefore >> the label. >> >> The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make >> previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases of >> ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress they have, >> and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would associate with >> phases. >> >> Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a discussion >> about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" (which include >> humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are restricted to material >> aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be due to mental developments, >> as long as they characterize substantially the being. >> >> All the best, >> >> Martin >> >>> >>> Martijn >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr <mar...@ics.forth.gr> wrote: >>> Dear All, >>> >>> Here a first attempt to define "phase": >>> >>> >>> Exxx Phase >>> >>> Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity >>> >>> Superclass of: E3 Condition State >>> >>> >>> Scope note: This class comprises phases during the existence and >>> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an >>> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times of >>> its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable kind, >>> such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of birds, but >>> some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as >>> accidents. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------ >>> Dr. Martin Doerr >>> >>> Honorary Head of the >>> >>> Center for Cultural Informatics >>> >>> Information Systems Laboratory >>> Institute of Computer Science >>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >>> >>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, >>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece >>> >>> Vox:+30(2810)391625 >>> Email: >>> mar...@ics.forth.gr >>> >>> Web-site: >>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Crm-sig mailing list >>> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr >>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Martijn van Leusen >>> Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of >>> Archaeology >>> Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717 >>> Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair, Faculty >>> of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies >>> Academia page >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------ >> Dr. Martin Doerr >> >> Honorary Head of the >> >> Center for Cultural Informatics >> >> Information Systems Laboratory >> Institute of Computer Science >> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >> >> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, >> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece >> >> Vox:+30(2810)391625 >> Email: >> mar...@ics.forth.gr >> >> Web-site: >> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> >> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
