David Laakso wrote:
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
Erika Meyer wrote:
The way toward change in web design trends is always by setting
examples, especially high-profile examples.
Know of any existing ones out here?
There are some out there. Not many. There will be more. Someone will
break the barrier. Others will follow suit...
After having gone through all responses so far, my (maybe somewhat
premature) conclusions and follow-up questions are as follows:
1: most barriers are not really web design related, and they are not
well defined. Makes it hard to break them.
2: the basic design-goals are quite narrow - look/feel/use in regular
browsers on regular screens. If/when media requirements change, these
basic goals tend to limit freedom of movement.
Ron Zisman wrote:
because i do photoshop mock-ups doesn't mean i'm using tables and
slicing and dicing graphics to make 100lb pages
You're perfectly right - it doesn't. However, you deal with both design
*and* coding, so you can make those sides meet in a balanced way.
The front-end coder handed a photoshop design and being told to "code
this", may not be so fortunate.
-----
Sticking to those regular browsers on regular screens:
1: it's unclear where one draws the lines between new/supported and
old/obsolete browsers.
2: it is unclear how one (somewhat safely and intelligently) deals with
browsers above and below those lines(1:).
3: it is unclear if/when/how one tests beyond a limited range of
new/supported browsers.
Think I've just touched on a few barriers that definitely are inside our
playing-field, to the degree clients/time/economics allow for.
Can someone provide input on these issues?
(No back and forth arguing, please, as we don't need to reach consensus.
Having many alternatives listed up is better than defining "best
practices".)
Myself, I naturally enough approach the support-issue from the top down,
and drill as far down as I get paid for.
Since "pay" isn't an issue on my own site, I tend to drill a little
further there...
<http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_02_02.html>
...not just because I can, but also because I may need the know-how one
day.
-----
Looking beyond those regular browsers on regular screens:
1: often it's like hearing a "what? anything there?" response, followed
by a "sorry, we didn't take that into account during the various design
phases." To a large (and growing) degree HTML/CSS can deal with other
media, so I guess it is up to us.
2: using WCAG2 as short-cut for widening the horizon beyond regular
screens and browser-defaults...
To a large (and growing) degree our humble HTML/CSS can deal with all
those requirements/needs too, so that's up to us too.
Also well within our playing-field, and the demand (from clients and
others) seems to grow. The question is: how, if at all, are we dealing
with this?
-----
Revisiting the start of this thread:
Ingo Chao wrote:
How about a discussion like: how do we use CSS 3 with an
IE6-userbase of greater than x% in years to come?
IE6 vs. CSS3 doesn't create many problems, since IE6 doesn't support
much of what's in the CSS3 modules. IE6 needs fallbacks so it doesn't go
completely nuts with its buggy and weak CSS1/2 support, that's all.
Searching around reveals quite a wide spread of browsers in use on
various screens and operating systems - some of which can't/won't be
upgraded, and with numbers of web users well above one billion already I
find calculating in, and basing graded support on, percentages a little
short-sighted.
FWIW: Firefox 2.x and other versions using the same and older Gecko
engines, are more of a problem than IE6 when it comes to CSS3, at my end.
If we can present and share practical solutions for various issues based
on what HTML/CSS can deliver and browsers can absorb without going nuts,
we may be able to design better in the future. I think that's a pretty
common goal, so I'm asking for more input that can lead us towards that
goal. The CSS-D Wiki pages are showing age and weaknesses, and could do
with some updates/upgrades.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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