-Caveat Lector-
MJ,
It appears that, in an attempt to get to the bottom of this, we have
painted ourselves into a corner. This is the old "fire in a crowded theater"
argument. Having to choose which freedoms are scared and which are not. And
I see your point, I really do. I'm not looking to get into some kind of
battle of wits with you (I know, because I'm unarmed. I'll save you the
trouble). I'll say this until I'm blue in the face, though. Driving drunk is
a proven killer. A drunk driver took the life of a close friend, so I know
all about it. Perhaps that's why I'm so heated up on the issue. Either way,
I'm not saying anything about the government, or executions, or internment
camps or anything of the sort. You brought that into the discussion. What I
am saying is that steps should be taken to PREVENT drunk driving. Education,
contracts for life, things like that. I'm not afraid of freedom, for the
last time. I AM afraid of dying, especially such a wasted and pointless
death as being run down by Joe Jock coming home from the Mellow Tiger after
a real bender.
JB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. A. Johnson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 4:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] **DOPE SUPPORTERS**
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> You say that I'm afraid of freedom, however you have produced nothing
> to support that claim.
> MJ:
> Criminalizing driving while drunk infringes upon one's freedom to do
> such. While it may not be SMART to participate in such an action, if
> *I* were to become 'shit-faced' and drive home without incident and
> keeping it between the lines ... HOW have *I* infringed upon *YOUR*
> property (life and its corolaries)?
>
> Again, why are you afraid of freedom?
>
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> What I am afraid of is that more people, like my friend, will die
> because
> we all sit by plucking daisies and turning our heads to something we
> can work together to prevent.
> MJ:
> 'Drunk driving' has been criminalized for many years. Has it prevented
> people from their own stupidity? What of those people who lack the
> ability to have a license (or their abilities have deteriorated) -- why do
> we not FINE them or criminalize THEIR actions? What of those exhausted
> persons who exhibit LIKE characteristics of SOME intoxicated drivers?
>
>
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> Also, you have said that a potential is not a crime. You're right,
> but..(this
> may shock you)...DRUNK DRIVING IS!!!! It's illegal!
> MJ:
> So are many items which should NOT. Drunk driving like many 'crimes'
> serve to raise revenue for the State.
>
> What is your point.
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> You can't even have an open container in the car with you. That's the
> issue. And, again, I'll try and explain it to you in simple terms. I
> agree
> that if what you do does not harm anyone but yourself, by all means
> do it until you drop dead. That was not what I am saying. I'm saying
> that when your actions have negative impacts on those around you
> it becomes a problem.
> MJ:
> ALL of your actions could be construed to impact those around you.
> Should we do as Frosty and all live in his Authoritarian padded world
> where we might be able to breathe without instruction from another?
>
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> So please, everybody...stop thinking that I'm challenging freedom. I'm
> not!
> MJ:
> But you most certainly ARE. *You* believe drunk driving is wrong ... so
> you seek the Government's legalized use of FORCE to penalize others
> who seek the Freedom to decide for themselves.
>
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> I'm only saying that there have been far to many good people cut
> down by drunk drivers. Something needs to be done.
> MJ:
> Why not simply EXECUTE those persons who 'kill' other persons?
>
>
>
> Jeremy Brown:
> And, MJ, for you to even use the term "discrimination" in the same
> sentence as drunk driving is downright offensive.
> MJ:
> The FACT that Joe would be fined for 'blowing a 1.0 BAL' if stopped
> in a road block where Stan would be allowed to go through (even though
> he had not slept in 72 hours) is discriminatory. This is based upon
> arbitrary whim and NOT on ability or lack therof.
>
> That you refuse to see this reality is another matter.
>
> Regard$,
> --MJ
>
> Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are
> willing to give it to others. -- William Allen White October 24, 1940
>
> We see that as soon as we surrender the principle that the state should
> not interfere in any question touching on the individual's mode of life,
> we end by regulating and restricting the latter down to the smallest
> detail. The personal freedom of the individual is abrogated. He becomes
> a slave of the community, bound to obey the dictates of the majority.
> It is hardly necessary to expatiate on the ways in which such power
> could be abused by malevolent persons in authority. The wielding of
> powers of this kind even by men imbued with the best of intentions must
> needs reduce the world to a graveyard of the spirit.
> -- Ludwig von Mises, "Liberalism: The Classical Tradition"
> (The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc., 1995), p.54
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
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> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> outright
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>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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> Om
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om
