-Caveat Lector-
<snip>
-Caveat Lector-
ooooops - there goes the whole point of the American experiment, down the
drain
------------------------------------
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam
NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:37:30 -0800
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [CTRL] I appeal to you to begin a campaign
>
> What we need is to acknolwedge God as King, and not man.
<A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
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<snip>
thew wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:07:47 -0800
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> >
> > As far as who designed the symbol over the White House (It is over the White
> > House, and inverted not right-side up. Look at the map and it is very clear.)
>
> turn the map around
> viola it is no longer satanic.
> -- ------------ ------------- ----------- -------------- -------------------
> ------------------
> Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
> is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
> left to irresponsible action.
>
> George Washington
>
> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
>
> <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
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> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
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> Om
BF>My response. Well, the map is facing north. Thus I fail to see the logic of
turning it around. If you are right, I need a little better than "turn the map
around". Why turn the map around? If there is some logical reason, I will listen.
If you simply do not want to face the truth, then I really do not know what to say.
As for the response to my third post, I am really more concerned about what
Christian conservatives would have to say to this. Their silence is very telling
about something. I would prefer their posts to those of Satanists and their
defenders. I will comment, however, since you raised a point impugning my
patriotism, which I am supposed to get upset about, flustered, protest my innocence,
etc. Christian conservatives do the very same thing, a trait I do not find
endearing.
I can only say that you do not really define "American Experiment", and
therefore it has no real meaning in this context. Do you mean the Puritians and
Pilgrims? Quakers? Jewish immigrants? Russian Orthodox immigrants? Rosicrucian
lodges? Thugee? Is it unfair that Buddhism, Judaism, and Hinduism are mentioned
whenever American pluralism is discussed but Thugee religious practiced is
condemned? Is this not un-American? (Sarcasm, laughter)
Seriously, I think it is a valid point you raised that the American and French
Revolutions coincided with increased secularism. I am not even going to debate with
you that point, even though it could be said that many of the Revolutionary slogans
in the colonial era had a Puritan/non-conformist religious basis and were not
exactly secular. I will not argue the point because those very same forces tended
to want to keep religion and politics separate (after they lost power), preventing
Catholics, Anglicans, or others from assuming political control. Thus we have a
kind of "secularism" implied here. Alright, your point is that the American
Experiment contained a degree of secularism once unheard of. Granted.
If so, and I were to agree to an implied claim of no public religious
philosophy, I would also have to deny any and all public religious symbols. If all
government religious symbols were removed from all parts of the United States
excepting Native Reservations, along with Puerto Rico and Guam, and if this is held
rigorously, let us say that I were to agree to this as a consistent interpretation
of the First Amendment, then the inverted pentagram would have to go. It is that
simple. All religious symbols would mean all religious symbols. It would mean
obelisks, Crosses and Stars of David on military cemetaries, Native symbols
everywhere but on Reservations, Catholic missions, and pyramids. It would be
Cromwell multiplied by a thousand. Life would be incredibly boring. The inverted
pentagram would also have to go. It is that simple. If I am un-American for not
going along with such a totalistic (and inherently totalitarian) interpretation of
the Constitution, then so be it. I want these symbols preserved as part of our
cultural heritage, and would not want a Noachide theocracy removing them as I do not
believe this is appropriate before the coming of the Messiah.
Thus I do not have an automatic Constitutional right to be free of the inverted
pentagram by my own standards. I could invoke the fourteenth amendment and say that
the violence in our land that Satanic forces have unleashed target African-Americans
more than whites, but that would not fly in Court and I know it. Having shot myself
in the foot, I must rely on the fact that D.C. is corporate United States, and not
part of the Republics of the fifty states, and thus even a compact interpretation of
the constitution (which I do not really hold to) would not protect the symbol under
the First Amendment. It is therefore subject to the planning of Congress. I
respect that the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution in a very complex manner,
but no one would deny the Constitutional power of Congress to re-design D.C. It can
do so, and must, to conform to the value system as held by most Americans. Congress
has the Constitutional power to do so, and should, where federal government
jurisdiction is concerned. Whether it should be replaced by another religious
symbol or left secular is obviously a complex question Constitutionally, religious
symbols not favored by the Court in the last fourty years, and perhaps a simply
secular street design should be implemented to keep things simple. Perhaps.
However, legally the "American Experiment" is preserved in this. Our liberties are
secure, henceforth, and to the ages. Hurrah! Hurrah!
I will respond to you and c. as far as whether I have misinterpreted the
symbol, or on previous threads, but on the third appeal, "I appeal to you to begin a
campaign" I will give you the last word since you have certainly earned it with your
dogged determination. I would be more favorable to responses on the third thread
from Christian conservatives. Do you not consider their silence on the matter
interesting? I am sure you would be as interested in their response as would I.
Perhaps they are working silently, which I can respect. I have developed a great
respect for them in many ways.
MHO
Bates
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Om
