-Caveat Lector-
you misunderstand me completely.
I did not mean Jews don't talk about it because it is taboo. they don't talk
about it, because the CONCEPT is alien to their world view.
Christians don't talk about karma and dharma, for example. not because they
are sweeping them under the rug, but because it is not part of their
culture.
Muslims - coming after Christianity may well have "Satanists". but the
conversation was origins of Satanism. there is no satanism in the Jewish
worldview. there is no Satanism in the Persian religions. if the Muslims
adopted the idea from the Christians, it does not affect what we are
discussing.
to call someone a "Satanist" and by that mean they worship a being of pure
evil, is originally a Christian concept. period. it does not make more
factually incorrect ( though how you can be more factually incorrect that
mythological drivel I do not know) it just means that without Christian
belief to balance against, there is no Satanism.
try to keep conversations in context.
............................................................................
....................................................
"It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error."
Justice Robert H. Jackson
NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:51:56 -0800
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> BF>Sir, have you not heard of the Azidi? (I believe I spelled their name
> correctly)
> They are Satan worshippers in the Muslim world. They are acknowledged as such
> by
> Muslims, though do not seem to be as much opposed as their fellow monotheists
> in
> Israel. They are acknowledged as Satan worshippers, and are not understood as
> such
> in a Christian context. Thus my argument that we can discuss these things
> without
> recourse to "that is a Christian idea". So what if it is a predominantly
> Christian
> idea? Does that make it factually incorrect?
> As far as what Jews do or do not talk about, I find that a rather specious way
> to shut down debate. "We do not talk about this" has been used to silence
> criticism
> of sexual abuse, slavery, torture, racism, and other evils. I am talking
> about it
> and that makes for one person at least. So it is not discussed in some
> circles?
> That is a social fact. Call it a "minchag", believing that it is simply
> giving evil
> more power. That is an argument made, one that cannot be dismissed lightly,
> but it
> is not universally agreed to. Rabbis have disagreed on many things. Judaism
> does
> not speak with one voice on every issue.
> Bates
>
>
> thew wrote:
>
>> -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> there was a Persian demon named shaitan.
>> there was an angelic presence by that name in the story of job,
>>
>> but in neither case was Satan THE great adversary of god, the number one
>> host of evil, an all powerful anti-god.
>>
>> to equate them because they are etymologically related is to paint with a
>> brush too broad to give meaning.
>>
>> Jews do not talk about Satanists. it makes no sense in the Jewish
>> mythological world view.
>> the Persians likewise have no "shaitan worship" that is analogous to what
>> Christians mean when they say "Satan worship"
>>
>> Satanists, in this context, is a Christian concept.
>> -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - ----- -- --- -- - - - ---- - -- - - - --
>> ---- -- - -- -
>>
>> Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and
>> truth.
>>
>> Henrik Ibsen
>>
>> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
>>
>>> From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:20:39 -0800
>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
>>>
>>> -Caveat Lector-
>>>
>>> BF>With due respect, Christians did not invent "Satan". Pre-Christian
>>> Israelite
>>> texts, both Mesoretic and those not included in the Hebrew Bible, have
>>> mentioned
>>> the concept of the Satan. Islam has also invoked the concept. This concept
>>> also
>>> exists in other religions than those of the Abrahamic faith. You are free
>>> to
>>> disagree with me, but please be accurate.
>>> Bates
>>>
>>> thew wrote:
>>>
>>>> -Caveat Lector-
>>>>
>>>> just the concept "satanic" is a Christian concept. To think someone might
>>>> be
>>>> a Satanist, you must first accept the belief system that Satan exists in.
>>>>
>>>> Satanism is a Christian sect ,perhaps a very fringe one, but a Christian
>>>> sect none the less.
>>>>
>>>> If I don't believe in Satan, calling me a Satanist doesn't have much
>>>> meaning.
>>>> -- ------------ ------------- ----------- --------------
>>>> -------------------
>>>> ------------------
>>>> Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
>>>> is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it
>>>> be
>>>> left to irresponsible action.
>>>>
>>>> George Washington
>>>>
>>>> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
>>>>
>>>>> From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:22 -0000
>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The inverted pentagram is an agreed upon Satanic symbol used by
>>>>> Satanists as
>>>>>> such.
>>>>>
>>>>> satanists... hmm... anyone that doesn't belief that your christ chap is
>>>>> the
>>>>> son of god?
>>>>
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