On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 13:08:15 +0200 Peter Nieman <gmane-a...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On 07/10/14 07:23, Steve Litt wrote: > > These are nowhere near a verbatim repeat of what the Listmaster > > said, but if these two things are what he meant, well, I can live > > with that, always assuming it's enforced uniformly and posters are > > notified when their posts go to /dev/null. > > > > I'll try hard to conform to the preceding two principles from now > > on. > > So you will be practising self-censorship? That's exactly what > censors want, and it's the opposite of freedom. (Note: I'm not > referring to Debian in particular.) Hi Peter, Self-censorship is one way of characterizing it. Another characterization would be sticking to the facts. A third characterization would be acting consistently. I strongly believe in being nice, and sticking to the facts, not discussing personalities or personal motivations. I need to bend my personalities and personal motivations principle a little bit, because of the elephant in the room: I, and at least several others, no longer trust the motivations of those who lead Debian. And the way Redhat has worked this, systemd-less alternatives are few and far between, with upstreams actually being urged to require systemd, so simply going to another distro is difficult. Had the Debian committee considered all options, and rejected the monolithic entanglement and dependency mess of systemd, Ubuntu would have done that too, and Red Hat couldn't have exercised a Microsoft like monopoly over Linux. It's an ugly situation, several months ago there was a clear chance to avoid this situation, and the Debian Tech Committee chose not to avoid it. In fact, from the email thread Don pointed to, the Debian Tech Committee seemed to railroad systemd right into PID 1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708 Read ^H^H^H^H skim the thread. Notice how, in the first 10 posts, after insisting that alternate inits be part of the discussion, a guy named Thorsten Glaser was ordered not to bring up alternate inits in the thread again. Again and again, the conversation is steered into the most limiting set of alternatives, often trampling on those who say "wait a minute, let's consider other things." So it may be impossible to completely keep the thread technical: There's a human element at its very core. In summary, yes, I self-censor sometimes. You don't want me swearing and discussing peoples' gender preferences in systemd threads, do you? SteveT Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141007120057.459ab...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
