> At this point, I think we should move forward with a GH wiki and then we can re-evaluate things once the Apache confluence issue is sorted out.
Agreed. On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:57 AM dev1 <d...@etcoleman.com> wrote: > I just tried (Wed, 3/15) and still received the same error. I asked on > the infra slack channel and they replied that they are still working to > determine what the issue is - signs are pointing to something inside of > confluence, but no progress. > > At this point, I think we should move forward with a GH wiki and then we > can re-evaluate things once the Apache confluence issue is sorted out. > > Ed Coleman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Marion <dmario...@gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 11:09 AM > To: dev@accumulo.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Enable Github wiki in asf.yaml? > > Looking at the Infra slack channel response, one of the responses in the > channel said that "it's some sort of db corruption according to Atlassian". > Doesn't sound good.... > > On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:55 AM Dave Marion <dmario...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24291 is still unresolved > > and the only comment on the ticket is one that Ed added two days ago > > requesting an ACCUMULO wiki space. > > > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 12:26 PM dev1 <d...@etcoleman.com> wrote: > > > >> I do not see any comments in the infa slack channel - so no updates > >> for now. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dave Marion <dmario...@gmail.com> > >> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2023 12:06 PM > >> To: dev@accumulo.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Enable Github wiki in asf.yaml? > >> > >> Right, I was just curious if there was any follow-up as I think Ed > >> said that it was going to be discussed by the INFRA team yesterday. > >> There is at least one other recent ticket ( > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24216) where selfserve > >> had an issue and the INFRA team created the space manually. > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 11:57 AM Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> > >> > You can track that issue at > >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24291 > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 10:31 AM Dave Marion <dmario...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Ed, > >> > > > >> > > Any update from INFRA on being able to create confluence pages? > >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 4:07 PM Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > We've definitely used the website for more than that. We use it > >> > > > to document things for users, help developers know how to > >> > > > contribute, store drafts of designs, share user stories via > >> > > > blogs, do release announcements, and more. There's definitely > >> > > > space on the website to do this kind of thing, if we want to. > >> > > > We've used it that way before. If you only see it as a place > >> > > > "for user consumption after everything has been finalized", > >> > > > then you're missing out on the other ways we currently use the > >> > > > site, and the ways we've used it in > >> the past. > >> > > > > >> > > > With the website, most of the collaboration would happen in the > >> > > > GH issues about proposed designs or changes to designs, just > >> > > > like we do today with code or other documentation, which > >> > > > everybody is used to. I agree it's not as good as Google Docs > >> > > > for on-the-fly comments/annotations, but I don't think > >> > > > Confluence or Wiki are as good as that either, and Google Docs > isn't really an option... > >> > > > unless you just want to link to it in the mailing list and > >> > > > stick to Google Docs from your personal Google account, until > >> > > > it's ready for publication, which would also be fine (any > >> > > > interested persons can simply request write access by replying > >> > > > to the message where > >> you shared the link).. > >> > > > > >> > > > We are a much smaller project than many others, and we have > >> > > > previously suffered from having stuff too spread out. Even if > >> > > > other projects find a separate space valuable for them, I'm not > >> > > > sure it's best for the Accumulo project. While I think it's > >> > > > useful to examine what other projects do, I do think we should > >> > > > be careful to adopt anything just because others find it > convenient for them. > >> > > > > >> > > > Confluence is my second choice, but with a big gap between it > >> > > > and my first choice. > >> > > > > >> > > > On a personal note: I hate using Confluence, because I think > >> > > > the navigation is highly unintuitive, as is the permissions > >> > > > model, and I don't like the idea of learning yet another > >> > > > wiki-syntax (though I've read Confluence supports some limited > >> > > > Markdown, but probably not the same as GitHub/Jekyll). I also > >> > > > do not want to set up custom notifications for watching yet > >> > > > another space. If we use Confluence, I will probably contribute > >> > > > very infrequently there because of my frustrations with having > >> > > > used it before. However, that would be my choice, and should > >> > > > not be a reason the project chooses one over another. I'm > >> > > > sharing my personal opinion only because it is influencing my > >> > > > opinion about the website being more accessible, via our > >> > > > current GitHub PR/issue/Markdown workflows, and I wonder how > >> > > > many other potential contributors would feel similarly. It's > >> > > > hard to know, since it seems like a lot of this is subjective, > >> > > > and is going to come down to a consensus of personal > >> preferences. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 3:46 PM Dave Marion > >> > > > <dmario...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I don't see the website as an area where we would have > >> > > > > collaborative discussions about an idea. For example, making > >> > > > > comments and > >> > suggestions > >> > > > on > >> > > > > a document like you can do in Google Docs. I see the website > >> > > > > as a > >> > place > >> > > > > where items are documented for user consumption after > >> > > > > everything has > >> > been > >> > > > > finalized. I'm not trying to create a private discussion > >> > > > > area, I > >> > think > >> > > > > anyone can see the wiki (but I think anonymous comments are > >> > > > > disabled > >> > due > >> > > > to > >> > > > > spam issues). I see no issue with putting work-in-progress > >> > > > > documents > >> > on a > >> > > > > wiki and referencing them via emails to the dev list. I think > >> > > > > this is > >> > > > done > >> > > > > in a lot of other projects. Non-committers that don't have > >> > > > > access to > >> > the > >> > > > > wiki and want to make comments, suggestions, and ask > >> > > > > questions can > >> > do so > >> > > > > via the mailing list. I think it's also possible that people > >> > > > > can get confluence accounts (see > >> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7058), > >> > > > > so if a non-committer wanted to participate they could. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 2:53 PM Christopher > >> > > > > <ctubb...@apache.org> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 1:34 PM Dave Marion > >> > > > > > <dmario...@gmail.com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I'm opposed to using the website for the reasons I > >> > > > > > > specified > >> > > > earlier, so > >> > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Your reasons that I saw were: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1. I don't think internal design discussions should go on > >> > > > > > > the > >> > project > >> > > > > > website. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > That doesn't look to me like a reason. That appears to just > >> > > > > > be > >> > stating > >> > > > > > the conclusion. Did I miss your reason here? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2. Changes to the design documents could not be seen by > >> > > > > > > others > >> > right > >> > > > > > away (IIRC changes to the website are built and available > >> > > > > > at https://accumulo.staged.apache.org/, but human > >> > > > > > intervention is > >> > > > required > >> > > > > > to publish it at https://accumulo.apache.org/). > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > What do you mean by "others" here? Do you mean "users", as > >> > > > > > opposed > >> > to > >> > > > > > "developers/contributors"? The ASF draws a distinction > >> > > > > > between "developers/contributors" and "users" as it > >> > > > > > pertains to official releases. Releases are intended to be > >> > > > > > consumed by users, and pre-release stuff is intended to be > >> > > > > > collaborative, open to all potential > >> > > > > > developers/contributors. Very very rarely are things > >> > > > > > reserved exclusively for committers. We don't even have a > >> > > > > > private committers space (the private mailing list is > >> > > > > > PMC-private, not committer-private). Having a distinction > >> > > > > > between users and > >> > developers > >> > > > > > doesn't mean we can't publish things on the website... it > >> > > > > > just > >> > means > >> > > > > > that we should be careful about how we do it, which is the > >> > > > > > same > >> > care > >> > > > > > we should take regardless of where we put it. Specifically, > >> > > > > > the > >> > care > >> > > > > > we need to take is to avoid marketing pre-release content > >> > > > > > to > >> users. > >> > > > > > One way we can exercise this care for content on our > >> > > > > > website is > >> > that > >> > > > > > we can avoid sharing these unpolished designs by simply not > >> > > > > > linking them on the site, or by placing them in an area > >> > > > > > that is clearly > >> > marked > >> > > > > > as intended for devs. But, we have no similar distinction > >> > > > > > between committers and non-committer devs for which we > >> > > > > > should avoid sharing pre-release content under development. > >> > > > > > In fact, it is the > >> > opposite... > >> > > > > > we should be developing openly so as to allow room for > >> > non-committers > >> > > > > > to become committers through participation in development > >> > activities. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As for the staging/publication of the website, that's just > >> > > > > > a > >> > mechanic > >> > > > > > for verifying the website isn't broken before we serve it. > >> > > > > > It's > >> > not a > >> > > > > > mechanism for keeping things internal vs. shared and > >> > > > > > doesn't have anything to do with the separation between > >> > > > > > devs and users. We > >> > already > >> > > > > > publish Draft contents to the website, as well as > >> > developer-specific > >> > > > > > documentation not intended for users. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > We've even specifically published work-in-progress design > >> > > > > > documents there, of the same type that seems to be the > >> > > > > > basis of this conversation ( > >> https://accumulo.apache.org/design/system-snapshot). > >> > I > >> > > > > > would strongly prefer us to continue to do it this way, > >> > > > > > rather than create a new space, and have these kinds of > >> > > > > > things scattered in multiple places. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If, on the other hand, you intend to say that these should > >> > > > > > be > >> > private > >> > > > > > because they aren't ready for other potential contributors, > >> > > > > > then I would argue that we're an openly developed project... > >> > > > > > if something isn't ready to be shared with other potential > >> > > > > > contributors / developers, such that you want to keep it > >> > > > > > internal to existing committers, then it's not ready to be > >> > > > > > contributed to the project at all... because we don't > >> > > > > > restrict collaboration to only existing committers. That > >> > > > > > would prevent others from participating and > >> > earning > >> > > > > > the merit to become committers, and that's not something we > >> > > > > > should > >> > be > >> > > > > > doing. Anything that is okay to share with existing > >> > > > > > committers > >> > should > >> > > > > > be okay to share to other potential contributors who want > >> > > > > > to participate, and should be done in a space that allows > >> > > > > > them to do that. The website is a perfect space for that, > >> > > > > > and has everything > >> > we > >> > > > > > need. I'm actually not sure about Confluence... I suspect > >> > > > > > non-committers wouldn't be able to participate there > >> > > > > > because they probably can't get accounts for it. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > looks like we need to > >> > > > > > > wait for INFRA to fix Confluence. I'd be curious how much > >> > > > > > > we > >> > need to > >> > > > use > >> > > > > > > the mailing list during > >> > > > > > > the design phase. We can announce meeting dates/times on > >> > > > > > > the > >> > mailing > >> > > > list > >> > > > > > > and post links to > >> > > > > > > meeting notes in Confluence. Ultimately, decisions made > >> > > > > > > by the > >> > people > >> > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > want to be involved > >> > > > > > > will turn into pull requests against the codebase which > >> > comitters can > >> > > > > > weigh > >> > > > > > > in on. When you say, > >> > > > > > > "... but decisions about those would still need to be > >> > > > > > > done on the > >> > > > mailing > >> > > > > > > list." Are you saying that we need to discuss every > >> > > > > > > single design decision on the mailing > >> > list? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Yes and no. I am saying that decisions need to happen on > >> > > > > > the > >> > mailing > >> > > > > > list, but I agree with you that this can be satisfied > >> > > > > > through pull requests. I just wanted to emphasize that > >> > > > > > regardless of where we do that pre-decision collaboration, > >> > > > > > that collaboration should not be misconstrued as a decision > >> > > > > > to > >> accept those ideas into the project. > >> > The > >> > > > > > decision occurs during the PR or other activity that > >> > > > > > interfaces > >> > with > >> > > > > > the mailing list, subsequent to the collaboration in the > >> > design/idea > >> > > > > > phase. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As for the pre-decision collaboration space we're > >> > > > > > discussing, I > >> > just > >> > > > > > want to be careful that we're not creating such a space in > >> > > > > > an exclusionary way that allows only existing committers to > >> > participate, > >> > > > > > that excludes other potential contributors. This is still > >> > > > > > an openly-developed project, and we should collaborate in a > >> > > > > > space > >> > that is > >> > > > > > not exclusive to existing committers, but open to > >> > > > > > non-committer contributors and potential contributors as well. > >> > > > > > So, while we may > >> > want > >> > > > > > to keep a line separating dev activity from user > >> > > > > > consumption (an important separation that relates to > >> > > > > > official ASF releases), we > >> > should > >> > > > > > not be drawing a line between committer-devs as "internal" > >> > > > > > and contributor-devs as "external". The website, with its > >> > > > > > own issue tracker, the ability to render markdown, do > >> > > > > > reviews, and collaboratively edit, seems like the ideal > >> > > > > > place to me. We've used > >> > it > >> > > > > > before for the same purpose, and I think we should continue > >> > > > > > to do > >> > so. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 12:56 PM Christopher > >> > > > > > > <ctubb...@apache.org > >> > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > So, I agree a space would be helpful. Although it's old > >> > > > > > > > school > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > inconvenient, the mailing list is the canonical place > >> > > > > > > > for > >> > > > discussion. > >> > > > > > > > We currently use GitHub issues a lot, but that's copied > >> > > > > > > > to a > >> > > > mailing > >> > > > > > > > list (as is our old JIRA space), so if people want to > >> > participate > >> > > > > > > > without a GitHub account, they can still do that. There > >> > > > > > > > are > >> > certain > >> > > > > > > > options that are perhaps less convenient, such as just > >> > > > > > > > using > >> > the > >> > > > > > > > mailing list and our dev SVN space, but still more > >> > > > > > > > appropriate > >> > than > >> > > > > > > > options that would be less ubiquitous for potential > >> > participants. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I think the ASF Confluence is probably fine, for > >> > > > > > > > storing, > >> > editing, > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > > > collaborating on shared documents, but decisions about > >> > > > > > > > those > >> > would > >> > > > > > > > still need to be done on the mailing list. If I > >> > > > > > > > remember > >> > > > correctly, we > >> > > > > > > > used to have a Wiki space, prior to it being > >> > > > > > > > transferred to Confluence, but it was poorly > >> > > > > > > > maintained, so we abandoned it in > >> > > > favor > >> > > > > > > > of using the website for docs. I could be > >> > > > > > > > mis-remembering, but > >> > I > >> > > > think > >> > > > > > > > this is the case. It might explain why you can't create > >> > > > > > > > a > >> > > > Confluence > >> > > > > > > > space. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > My preference would be to just use the website. I think > >> > > > > > > > it's > >> > fine > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > > > have a dev / design area of the website, and we can > >> > > > > > > > discuss on > >> > > > GitHub > >> > > > > > > > issues for the accumulo-website repo. That is a bit > >> > > > > > > > less > >> > convenient > >> > > > > > > > than Confluence if it's used heavily, but it's more > >> > > > > > > > convenient > >> > in > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > > > sense that it's more accessible and fits more in line > >> > > > > > > > with our > >> > > > current > >> > > > > > > > mode of operation. Plus, when a document is final, it's > >> > > > > > > > easy to > >> > > > link > >> > > > > > > > to from our documentation, without making users jump to > >> > > > > > > > another service to view docs. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I would be opposed to using GitHub wiki or a new git repo. > >> > > > > > > > We > >> > have > >> > > > > > > > enough repos. Although it seems like they are free, > >> > > > > > > > there is > >> > still > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > > > lot of boilerplate work to maintain them, from managing > >> > > > > > > > .github/workflows, .github/CONTRIBUTING.md, etc., to > >> > .asf.yaml, to > >> > > > > > > > README, to keeping copyright dates updated in the > >> > > > > > > > NOTICE file, > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > more. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In summary, my preference: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. Keep a space in accumulo-website, discuss on GH > >> > > > > > > > issues and > >> > > > mailing > >> > > > > > > > list (strongly preferred) 2. Confluence, discuss on > >> > > > > > > > mailing list (prefer over other > >> > options, > >> > > > but > >> > > > > > > > not a fan) > >> > > > > > > > 3. GitHub wiki, discuss on mailing list (strongly > >> > > > > > > > prefer not > >> > to use > >> > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > option) > >> > > > > > > > 4. New GitHub repo, discuss on GH issues and mailing > >> > > > > > > > list > >> > (strongly > >> > > > > > > > prefer not to use this option) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 12:30 PM Ed Coleman < > >> > edcole...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Currently, asf cannot create new wiki's because of a > >> > Confluence > >> > > > > > issue ( > >> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24291) I > >> > > > > > > > chatted > >> > with > >> > > > > > infra > >> > > > > > > > and in response they created that issue. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > To expand on this discussion, I would like to toss > >> > > > > > > > > out > >> > another > >> > > > > > > > alternative to discuss / explore. What if we used a > >> > > > > > > > separate > >> > > > GitHub > >> > > > > > > > project, something like Accumulo-Design, just like > >> > accumulo-proxy > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > > > accumulo-examples. As a separate project, it would be > >> > available > >> > > > for > >> > > > > > > > collaboration for the community, but remain separate > >> > > > > > > > from main > >> > > > project > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > the website to keep current code / documentation / > >> > > > > > > > design > >> > clearly > >> > > > > > separate > >> > > > > > > > from speculative design discussions. As a project: > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > - document history would be preserved with git commit > >> > history. > >> > > > > > > > > - document collaboration could be done with normal PR > >> > > > submissions / > >> > > > > > > > reviews. > >> > > > > > > > > - issues could be used to discuss design aspects, > >> > > > > > > > > capturing > >> > the > >> > > > > > comment > >> > > > > > > > history. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The biggest downside is that it would be yet another > >> > > > > > > > > project > >> > to > >> > > > > > follow / > >> > > > > > > > track. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > For me, I think the issue is that we need a public, > >> > collaborative > >> > > > > > space > >> > > > > > > > to hold design discussions. Neither the main project or > >> > > > > > > > the > >> > > > web-site > >> > > > > > seem > >> > > > > > > > quite appropriate and Confluence seems to lack the > >> > collaboration > >> > > > that > >> > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > be achieved with github. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > We need a space to capture the redesign and whatever > >> > > > > > > > > we > >> > select > >> > > > can be > >> > > > > > > > made to work - I'm just wondering what provides the > >> > > > > > > > easiest > >> > forum > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > build > >> > > > > > > > a collaborative space for the Accumulo community. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Ed Coleman > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On 2023/02/28 16:35:31 dlmar...@comcast.net wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > Circling back on this issue - I agree that comments > >> > > > > > > > > > and > >> > such > >> > > > make > >> > > > > > > > sense for internal design documents. I'm going to > >> > > > > > > > create an > >> > INFRA > >> > > > > > ticket > >> > > > > > > > for a cwiki space for Accumulo unless there are any > >> objections. > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Drew Farris <d...@ill.org> > >> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2023 5:16 PM > >> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@accumulo.apache.org > >> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Enable Github wiki in asf.yaml? > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > As mentioned, wikis can provide a streamlined > >> > > > > > > > > > collaborative > >> > > > editing > >> > > > > > > > workflow that's less labor intensive than updating a > >> website. > >> > They > >> > > > can > >> > > > > > > > promote collaboration by providing specific tooling to > >> > > > > > > > support > >> > > > > > comments, > >> > > > > > > > revisions and iteration. > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In terms of preservation, GH wikis act just like > >> > > > > > > > > > any other > >> > Git > >> > > > > > > > repository, with a remote at (for example) g...@github.com > : > >> > > > > > > > apache/accumulo.wiki.git > >> > > > > > > > > > IIRC the pages are just GH flavored markdown. There > >> > > > > > > > > > are at > >> > > > least a > >> > > > > > few > >> > > > > > > > Apache projects using them. > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > However, GH wikis lack some features that I feel > >> > > > > > > > > > are > >> > important > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > > > support collaborative authoring. For example, the > >> > > > > > > > ability to > >> > > > comment > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > discuss specific passages in a document is a feature > >> > > > > > > > that's > >> > > > present in > >> > > > > > > > Cwiki, but not in GH wikis. I've come appreciate this > >> > > > > > > > this in > >> > my > >> > > > google > >> > > > > > > > docs and office workflows, so expect that it would be > >> > > > > > > > useful > >> > for > >> > > > > > Accumulo > >> > > > > > > > design discussions too. > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Keith Turner < > >> > > > ktur...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I would like to try a wiki for design documents, > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think > >> > it > >> > > > > > would be > >> > > > > > > > > > > less cumbersome than the website and we can > >> > > > > > > > > > > always link > >> > from > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > website and issues to the wiki. I think its ok > >> > > > > > > > > > > to give > >> > it a > >> > > > try > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > abandon it in the future, if abandoned would just > >> > > > > > > > > > > need to > >> > > > > > properly > >> > > > > > > > > > > communicate that. The content should be archived > >> > > > > > > > > > > in > >> > Apache > >> > > > > > > > > > > infrastructure, so if GH wiki does not do that > >> > > > > > > > > > > then we > >> > should > >> > > > > > not use > >> > > > > > > > > > > it. If GH wiki is not an option then could try > cwiki. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 7:55 AM > >> > > > > > > > > > > <dlmar...@comcast.net> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I reverted the change. I didn't think it would > >> > > > > > > > > > > > be a big > >> > > > deal, > >> > > > > > but > >> > > > > > > > if > >> > > > > > > > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > > > > > requires discussion, then let's discuss it. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm looking for a place to host information > >> > > > > > > > > > > > related to > >> > > > internal > >> > > > > > > > > > > > design > >> > > > > > > > > > > discussions. I envision these to be living > >> > > > > > > > > > > documents that > >> > > > will be > >> > > > > > > > > > > updated over time as the design/implementation > >> > progresses and > >> > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > other committers will be able to comment on and > >> > > > > > > > > > > edit. I > >> > don't > >> > > > > > feel > >> > > > > > > > > > > that the website is the correct place for this > >> because: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I don't think internal design discussions > >> > > > > > > > > > > > should > >> > go > >> > > > on the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > project > >> > > > > > > > > > > website. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Changes to the design documents could not > >> > > > > > > > > > > > be seen > >> > by > >> > > > > > others > >> > > > > > > > > > > > right > >> > > > > > > > > > > away (IIRC changes to the website are built and > >> > available at > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://accumulo.staged.apache.org/, but human > >> > intervention > >> > > > is > >> > > > > > > > > > > required to publish it at > >> https://accumulo.apache.org/). > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I looked in the INFRA issues and other projects > >> > > > > > > > > > > > are > >> > using > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > GH > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Wiki > >> > > > > > > > > > > feature and I saw no mention of backing it up or > >> > > > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > requirement > >> > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > do > >> > > > > > > > > > > so (maybe they rely on GitHub backing it up?). It > >> > > > > > > > > > > does > >> > appear > >> > > > > > that we > >> > > > > > > > > > > would need an INFRA ticket so that they can > >> > > > > > > > > > > modify the > >> > GitHub > >> > > > > > project > >> > > > > > > > > > > settings to lock the GitHub wiki down so that > >> > > > > > > > > > > only > >> > > > committers can > >> > > > > > > > > > > modify it. If GitHub Wiki is not acceptable, then > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think > >> > > > Apache > >> > > > > > > > > > > Confluence ( > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org) might be an acceptable > >> > > > alternative. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From: Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2023 4:41 AM > >> > > > > > > > > > > > To: accumulo-dev <dev@accumulo.apache.org> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: comm...@accumulo.apache.org > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [accumulo] branch main updated: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Enable > >> > Github > >> > > > > > wiki in > >> > > > > > > > > > > asf.yaml > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't recall a discussion about this change, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > but I > >> > think > >> > > > it > >> > > > > > goes > >> > > > > > > > > > > against previous efforts to make the website the > >> > > > > > > > > > > one > >> > > > canonical > >> > > > > > > > > > > location for our documentation. I don't even > >> > > > > > > > > > > think infra > >> > is > >> > > > > > backing > >> > > > > > > > up > >> > > > > > > > > > > wiki repos, so there wouldn't even be a record of > >> > > > > > > > > > > the > >> > wiki > >> > > > > > contents > >> > > > > > > > in > >> > > > > > > > > > > ASF spaces (vs. the main repo, which is backed up > >> > > > > > > > > > > to > >> > GitBox > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > issue tracker, which CCs the notifications list). > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > In short, I think this should be reverted and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > we > >> > should not > >> > > > > > use the > >> > > > > > > > > > > GitHub wiki. If we need to store documents in a > >> > > > > > > > > > > version > >> > > > > > controlled > >> > > > > > > > > > > way, we can store them on the website, or in our > >> > project's > >> > > > SVN > >> > > > > > dev > >> > > > > > > > > > > space. The wiki is just another place people > >> > > > > > > > > > > would have > >> > to > >> > > > > > follow if > >> > > > > > > > > > > they want to participate, and I don't think that > >> > > > > > > > > > > serves > >> > us. > >> > > > > > > > Therefore, > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think we shouldn't use it. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 15:59 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <dlmar...@apache.org> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an automated email from the ASF > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dual-hosted > >> > git > >> > > > > > > > repository. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dlmarion pushed a commit to branch main in > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > repository > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/accumulo. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > git > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The following commit(s) were added to > >> > refs/heads/main by > >> > > > this > >> > > > > > > > push: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > new ae8a817e7b Enable Github wiki in > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > asf.yaml > >> > > > > > ae8a817e7b is > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > described below > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > commit > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ae8a817e7b2af8c64096ed1a4274eaef44c0e677 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Author: Dave Marion <dlmar...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > AuthorDate: Fri Feb 24 15:59:10 2023 -0500 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Enable Github wiki in asf.yaml > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > .asf.yaml | 2 +- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > deletion(-) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > diff --git a/.asf.yaml b/.asf.yaml index > >> > > > > > bc2c943e82..08aa357082 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 100644 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- a/.asf.yaml > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > +++ b/.asf.yaml > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ github: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - big-data > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - hacktoberfest > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > features: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - wiki: false > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > + wiki: true > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > issues: true > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > projects: true > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
