I think we will not know before we try it with bi-directional communication. I would be eager to try and see (and withdraw if we find unsolvable problems).
Experimenting is good way to try if we do not know. And I think such an experiment has low risk and is easily reversible. So it's perfect for the "experiment" approach. The "change process" theory is very clear about it - you should be more careful with things that are either "difficult to reverse" or "have big impact". The low-impact/easily reversible changes are the perfect ones for experimenting and I believe it's perfectly OK to try something and withdraw if we find it's not working - as opposed to "keep doing as we always did". One of my favourite sayings is "The best way to predict the future is to shape it". We do not necessarily have to be bound to how the #development is channel is used now - for example for asking for PR reviews. Instead we can deliberately shape it. For example we can create a separate #pr-review-channel and rename the #development channel to #official-devlist channel (and add appropriate explanation on channel's purpose). Or add more channels if we find that there are more topics that should be out of the main #official devlist" channel. Those two changes will be enough - in my opinion - to make people think twice before they post in the #official-devlist channel. At the same time it will serve the idea born in that thread - to open the communication capabilities for people who have problems with using "outdated" mailing list communication method (in favour of slack interface). Note that it is only about the interface - the purpose of the channel should be the same as the current devlist. It's just to make it more accessible. Surely it does not solve all the points raised in the "welcoming" thread but I think it's worth trying to see how it works and possibly the interface will be enough to get some people participate more. J On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:33 PM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote: > I think we should first discuss on our main objective on sending slack > messages to a list ( it can be a separate list) i.e. answer the very basic > question : why do we want to forward slack messages to any email list? > > For me if we plan to do this it would be for the search engines to index > them. > > What are your answers if you support this idea. And if you don't support > this idea like Ash - are you ok with sending messages to a separate list > just for indexing purposes? > > Regards, > Kaxil > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 21:30 Tomasz Urbaszek <[email protected]> wrote: > >> We can always try one-way direction first (devlist -> slack) to >> provide easier (for some) access to our discussions. >> >> T. >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 4:53 PM Ash Berlin-Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > I am skeptical of this (the list link isn't loading for me right now) - >> but a lot of the chat on #development in slack is ephemeral by design - >> it's people asking for feedback, general chatting etc, but not relevant the >> next day. >> > >> > Slack (at least how I use it) is a very different "mode" to email - >> slack I write one message and maybe start a thread, replying to myself. I >> have a hard veto on each individual slack message/reply generated an email >> to the dev list. >> > >> > On 27 January 2020 11:50:01 GMT, Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >I love the idea! >> > > >> > >How about we just mirror our dev@ and user@ to two separate channels: >> > >dev = >> > >#development , user = #troubleshooting (or we can have new channels for >> > >that or change names of the channels to official-dev, official-user >> > >etc.). >> > > >> > >From what I saw in the message @mahout - with bi-directional >> > >synchronisation, the email threads are automatically converted to email >> > >threads and vice-versa. We could still use other channels for ad-hoc >> > >discussions (but with the nice twist that we could easily refer to the >> > >threads/discussion in the devlist/#dev users/#troubleshooting from >> > >within >> > >slack. >> > > >> > >This will likely increase traffic in mailing list for both channels, >> > >but if >> > >we are going to have the same on slack/mailing list, it will be much >> > >more >> > >transparent and much more convenient to follow if both slack and email >> > >for. >> > > >> > >J. >> > > >> > > >> > >On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:50 AM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> >> > >wrote: >> > > >> > >> One 1 concern I have with forwarding everything to Dev would the >> > >"how-to" >> > >> question. >> > >> >> > >> For example: how I can integrate LDAP with Airflow? Or How can enable >> > >RBAC >> > >> UI etc. >> > >> >> > >> Forwarding those to "users" might make more sense I feel but I am >> > >very open >> > >> to suggestions and discussions. >> > >> >> > >> Regards, >> > >> Kaxil >> > >> >> > >> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 15:10 Tomasz Urbaszek <[email protected]> >> > >wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > Thanks Kaxil for starting new this thread! >> > >> > >> > >> > In my opinion, we should use dev@ for this integration. I am >> afraid >> > >that >> > >> > using slack@ with selective forwarding in a bidirectional way will >> > >be >> > >> > hard to achieve. >> > >> > >> > >> > In my opinion, the most important aspect of this integration is to >> > >bring >> > >> > devlist discussion to a wider audience (devlist -> slack). If >> > >someone >> > >> wants >> > >> > to take part in the discussion then he/she can use mail or slack. >> > >> > >> > >> > One point I am still wondering is, does this integration allow >> > >Slack >> > >> users >> > >> > to respond to selected threads/messages? >> > >> > >> > >> > Tomek >> > >> > >> > >> > On 2020/01/27 09:30:26, Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Hey all, >> > >> > > >> > >> > > While discussing on how to be more welcoming for the community, >> > >Tomek >> > >> > found >> > >> > > something really interesting on the devcomm list. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Tomek's email: >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r0192c6932e1bae8300ef50ac9284d7c609bca022bb7edc83ed35bf1d%40%3Cdev.airflow.apache.org%3E >> > >> > > >> > >> > > "We have set up Mahout's slack space to forward directly to >> > >> > > > [email protected]. We will now be able to plan publicly on >> > >> slack. >> > >> > This >> > >> > > > a bi-directional connection, all messages to >> > >[email protected] >> > >> > will >> > >> > > > show up in Slack. No one will be left out of planning." >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbc1c1c2a289accb40e7e3967f7c08213f13fea46013f73cf881c74c0%40%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I think this is a very good find. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > We can do something similar. >> > >> > > 2 things I have in mind: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > 1) A separate list [email protected] where we forward all >> > >Slack >> > >> > > communication >> > >> > > >> > >> > > 2) A selective forward (filter certain channels to different >> > >list). >> > >> Some >> > >> > of >> > >> > > them can go to dev@ but some belong to users@ list >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I see (1) being more relevant. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I have separated that thread to discuss the specifics of Slack as >> > >this >> > >> > can >> > >> > > be independent of that thread. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > What do you guys think about this? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Regards, >> > >> > > Kaxil >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > > >> > >Jarek Potiuk >> > >Polidea <https://www.polidea.com/> | Principal Software Engineer >> > > >> > >M: +48 660 796 129 <+48660796129> >> > >[image: Polidea] <https://www.polidea.com/> >> > -- Jarek Potiuk Polidea <https://www.polidea.com/> | Principal Software Engineer M: +48 660 796 129 <+48660796129> [image: Polidea] <https://www.polidea.com/>
