I am all for trying. We can test it out to a separate list
(backwards-compatible 😄).
Our "dev" list is like the prod servers. We can test on a separate list and
depending on the results/feedbacks/learning from it decide next steps.
I definitely do not want to make "dev" list our playground to test it out
and would want to keep it spam free and free of "1-line, 1-word" messages
converted to a single email.
Again I have one main reason I want to test this integration:
- For Slack messages to be indexable
And this is so that answers to troubleshoot/"how-to" questions are indexed.
And would love to know what reasons do you guys have and what you have
against it.
I would also love to reach out to Mahout guys on their learnings or
experiences with the Slack integration ("bi-directional").
@tomek - Do you want to reach out to them? as you found this out. Let me
know if you are busy Tomek, I am more than happy to reach out to them.
Regards,
Kaxil
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 01:56 Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think we will not know before we try it with bi-directional
> communication. I would be eager to try and see (and withdraw if we find
> unsolvable problems).
>
> Experimenting is good way to try if we do not know. And I think such an
> experiment has low risk and is easily reversible. So it's perfect for the
> "experiment" approach. The "change process" theory is very clear about it -
> you should be more careful with things that are either "difficult to
> reverse" or "have big impact". The low-impact/easily reversible changes are
> the perfect ones for experimenting and I believe it's perfectly OK to try
> something and withdraw if we find it's not working - as opposed to "keep
> doing as we always did".
>
> One of my favourite sayings is "The best way to predict the future is to
> shape it". We do not necessarily have to be bound to how the #development
> is channel is used now - for example for asking for PR reviews. Instead we
> can deliberately shape it. For example we can create a separate
> #pr-review-channel and rename the #development channel to #official-devlist
> channel (and add appropriate explanation on channel's purpose). Or add more
> channels if we find that there are more topics that should be out of the
> main #official devlist" channel. Those two changes will be enough - in my
> opinion - to make people think twice before they post in the
> #official-devlist channel. At the same time it will serve the idea born in
> that thread - to open the communication capabilities for people who have
> problems with using "outdated" mailing list communication method (in favour
> of slack interface).
>
> Note that it is only about the interface - the purpose of the channel
> should be the same as the current devlist. It's just to make it more
> accessible. Surely it does not solve all the points raised in the
> "welcoming" thread but I think it's worth trying to see how it works and
> possibly the interface will be enough to get some people participate more.
>
> J
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:33 PM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think we should first discuss on our main objective on sending slack
>> messages to a list ( it can be a separate list) i.e. answer the very basic
>> question : why do we want to forward slack messages to any email list?
>>
>> For me if we plan to do this it would be for the search engines to index
>> them.
>>
>> What are your answers if you support this idea. And if you don't support
>> this idea like Ash - are you ok with sending messages to a separate list
>> just for indexing purposes?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kaxil
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 21:30 Tomasz Urbaszek <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> We can always try one-way direction first (devlist -> slack) to
>>> provide easier (for some) access to our discussions.
>>>
>>> T.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 4:53 PM Ash Berlin-Taylor <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I am skeptical of this (the list link isn't loading for me right now)
>>> - but a lot of the chat on #development in slack is ephemeral by design -
>>> it's people asking for feedback, general chatting etc, but not relevant the
>>> next day.
>>> >
>>> > Slack (at least how I use it) is a very different "mode" to email -
>>> slack I write one message and maybe start a thread, replying to myself. I
>>> have a hard veto on each individual slack message/reply generated an email
>>> to the dev list.
>>> >
>>> > On 27 January 2020 11:50:01 GMT, Jarek Potiuk <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>> > >I love the idea!
>>> > >
>>> > >How about we just mirror our dev@ and user@ to two separate channels:
>>> > >dev =
>>> > >#development , user = #troubleshooting (or we can have new channels
>>> for
>>> > >that or change names of the channels to official-dev, official-user
>>> > >etc.).
>>> > >
>>> > >From what I saw in the message @mahout - with bi-directional
>>> > >synchronisation, the email threads are automatically converted to
>>> email
>>> > >threads and vice-versa. We could still use other channels for ad-hoc
>>> > >discussions (but with the nice twist that we could easily refer to the
>>> > >threads/discussion in the devlist/#dev users/#troubleshooting from
>>> > >within
>>> > >slack.
>>> > >
>>> > >This will likely increase traffic in mailing list for both channels,
>>> > >but if
>>> > >we are going to have the same on slack/mailing list, it will be much
>>> > >more
>>> > >transparent and much more convenient to follow if both slack and email
>>> > >for.
>>> > >
>>> > >J.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:50 AM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]>
>>> > >wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> One 1 concern I have with forwarding everything to Dev would the
>>> > >"how-to"
>>> > >> question.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> For example: how I can integrate LDAP with Airflow? Or How can
>>> enable
>>> > >RBAC
>>> > >> UI etc.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Forwarding those to "users" might make more sense I feel but I am
>>> > >very open
>>> > >> to suggestions and discussions.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Regards,
>>> > >> Kaxil
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 15:10 Tomasz Urbaszek <[email protected]>
>>> > >wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > Thanks Kaxil for starting new this thread!
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > In my opinion, we should use dev@ for this integration. I am
>>> afraid
>>> > >that
>>> > >> > using slack@ with selective forwarding in a bidirectional way
>>> will
>>> > >be
>>> > >> > hard to achieve.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > In my opinion, the most important aspect of this integration is to
>>> > >bring
>>> > >> > devlist discussion to a wider audience (devlist -> slack). If
>>> > >someone
>>> > >> wants
>>> > >> > to take part in the discussion then he/she can use mail or slack.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > One point I am still wondering is, does this integration allow
>>> > >Slack
>>> > >> users
>>> > >> > to respond to selected threads/messages?
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Tomek
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On 2020/01/27 09:30:26, Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > >> > > Hey all,
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > While discussing on how to be more welcoming for the community,
>>> > >Tomek
>>> > >> > found
>>> > >> > > something really interesting on the devcomm list.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Tomek's email:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r0192c6932e1bae8300ef50ac9284d7c609bca022bb7edc83ed35bf1d%40%3Cdev.airflow.apache.org%3E
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > "We have set up Mahout's slack space to forward directly to
>>> > >> > > > [email protected]. We will now be able to plan publicly
>>> on
>>> > >> slack.
>>> > >> > This
>>> > >> > > > a bi-directional connection, all messages to
>>> > >[email protected]
>>> > >> > will
>>> > >> > > > show up in Slack. No one will be left out of planning."
>>> > >> > > >
>>> > >> > > >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbc1c1c2a289accb40e7e3967f7c08213f13fea46013f73cf881c74c0%40%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > I think this is a very good find.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > We can do something similar.
>>> > >> > > 2 things I have in mind:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > 1) A separate list [email protected] where we forward
>>> all
>>> > >Slack
>>> > >> > > communication
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > 2) A selective forward (filter certain channels to different
>>> > >list).
>>> > >> Some
>>> > >> > of
>>> > >> > > them can go to dev@ but some belong to users@ list
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > I see (1) being more relevant.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > I have separated that thread to discuss the specifics of Slack
>>> as
>>> > >this
>>> > >> > can
>>> > >> > > be independent of that thread.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > What do you guys think about this?
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Regards,
>>> > >> > > Kaxil
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >--
>>> > >
>>> > >Jarek Potiuk
>>> > >Polidea <https://www.polidea.com/> | Principal Software Engineer
>>> > >
>>> > >M: +48 660 796 129 <+48660796129>
>>> > >[image: Polidea] <https://www.polidea.com/>
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Jarek Potiuk
> Polidea <https://www.polidea.com/> | Principal Software Engineer
>
> M: +48 660 796 129 <+48660796129>
> [image: Polidea] <https://www.polidea.com/>
>
>
