Okay; it seems there 4 people interested and willing to work on the
project. Option #2 it is.
Some other comments:
- Please don't apologize for any lack of contribution at any given time --
this is a volunteer led organization and we totally understand and
appreciate volunteer efforts as, when and if they are made.
- There are many ways of growing the community; the best one is by
increasing usage and adoption ("user fit"). Obviously, this is a hard
problem, requiring lot of time, user development, and improving the
technology. Alternatively, if there's no organic growth, companies often
get paid developers regardless in hopes that those people can solve the
problem with user fit and jump start the organic growth. There are no easy
answers, perhaps similar to the book The Hard Thing About Hard Things. You
have to work like crazy on it, there's no recipe.
- You should discuss the goals so that there are no moving goalposts. Think
about some metrics that you want to accomplish now, and then measure
yourself against them in 3 months. All four of you should drive this
discussion -- and JB and I should just be the observers. And, please, make
sure you start those conversations again to check on the progress. (Please
don't wait for me to do it.)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 4:39 AM Kirupa Devarajan <kirupagara...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I would like the project to remain in podling too. My workload is becoming
> less and I will start contributing too.
>
> -Kirupa
>
> On Tue., 2 Oct. 2018, 6:26 pm Jean-Baptiste Onofré, <j...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I second Davor here. I think it makes sense to think about retiring the
> > podling. I don't see large community around the project (both dev and
> > user).
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 02/10/2018 09:27, Davor Bonaci wrote:
> > > Any comments? Anyone?
> > >
> > > Option 1: start a vote to retire the podling and move the project into
> > your
> > > own repository.
> > > Option 2: keep things as-is for a few months and re-assess.
> > >
> > > I'd say Option 2 requires a minimum of 3 people explicitly saying that
> > they
> > > want to continue trying and contributing.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks Yaniv for your comments.
> > >>
> > >> - After the release of 0.2.0 the community became very quiet. I
> think
> > >>> that at this point in the life of the project it is natural, as we
> > all
> > >>> doing this in our free time and the release was a major effort
> that
> > >>> all of
> > >>> us (after talking to members in the community) had to compensate
> for
> > >>> in our
> > >>> day jobs and families.
> > >>> With that said, we shouldn't have gone so quiet. I think we can
> all
> > >>> agree this is not acceptable for so long (if at all).
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Not sure I agree: it is not natural for projects in the Incubator to
> be
> > >> quiet. It does happen to projects that are getting
> obsolete/irrelevant,
> > >> often after many years as TLPs. The release usually *increases*
> activity
> > >> around the project as new users come, ask questions, start
> contributing,
> > >> etc.
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand, totally fine for people to go quiet. The problem
> > isn't
> > >> around anybody going quiet, but the fact of nobody new arriving. Is
> > there
> > >> any evidence of any usage of the release? Anybody hitting any problem?
> > Any
> > >> lack of documentation? Any bugfixes? That's the core of the problem.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> - It is very critical at this point to grow the community. Going
> > back
> > >>> to
> > >>> my first point, as long as we are such a small community, efforts
> > like
> > >>> releasing a version will set us back, and the last release is a
> good
> > >>> example for that danger.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Not sure I agree: releases usually pick up the activity, pick up new
> > >> users, as new features now make the project more attractive. I don't
> > think
> > >> I've ever seen an argument where "releasing a version sets us back".
> > >> Especially the *first* one.
> > >>
> > >> - Grow the community. BTW I think this is one reason we should
> > consider
> > >>> staying an Apache project, I think that with the release, we
> should
> > >>> also
> > >>> shift some focus to growing the community. This is an issue I see
> > other
> > >>> projects struggling with, this includes TLPs such as Apache Arrow
> > (in a
> > >>> recent thread on their dev list) and I don't think there is one
> > answer
> > >>> on
> > >>> how to do it, and I spent some time on other lists to see if they
> > have
> > >>> solutions. I think we can do many things to fix this, and it's
> more
> > of
> > >>> a
> > >>> trial and error process for most projects. Things we can (and
> should
> > >>> start
> > >>> doing immediately) includes doing more public presentations (and I
> > >>> have to
> > >>> give a shout-out @Nadav Har Tzvi <nadavhart...@gmail.com> that
> > >>> presented
> > >>> in two conferences recently), write blog posts, and we should all
> > >>> invest
> > >>> time in doing so. But one thing we also need to do is actively
> > looking
> > >>> for
> > >>> more contributors. If anyone here has someone they think is a good
> > fit,
> > >>> let's try to get them onboard.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Outreach (blogs, talks, etc.) can help, but they help you *scale*. I
> > think
> > >> the project hasn't demonstrated early user fit -- and trying to scale
> > >> before establishing that often doesn't yield results. For example, if
> > you
> > >> were to throw Amaterasu in front of 1000 people, how many would join
> the
> > >> community? If only a few, it is probably a bad idea to do it. (I worry
> > it
> > >> is less than a few.)
> > >>
> > >> The problem is likely with the user fit, and can be solved only by
> user
> > >> development -- most of which often happens before scaling, before
> > building
> > >> the community, and before joining the Incubator.
> > >>
> > >> It is really, really, really hard to build the community before early
> > user
> > >> fit.
> > >>
> > >> I think that the next few months are more about staying in the
> > incubating
> > >>> or not, it is do-or-die for Amaterasu. We need to fix the situation
> so
> > I
> > >>> wouldn't rush in this situation to consider retiring quite yet.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I'm totally fine with leaving things as-is for a few more months.
> But, I
> > >> don't think it is realistic to expect changes to the degree necessary
> to
> > >> graduate. As a result, I think you can use *your time* better.
> > >>
> > >> * * *
> > >>
> > >> I'm really sorry to be the messenger of bad news. I don't want to
> paint
> > >> Amaterasu (or your work) in any bad way. I do want you and the project
> > to
> > >> be most successful as possible.
> > >>
> > >> Please note that I don't gain anything by driving this conversation.
> In
> > >> fact, I lose a lot. Time is a precious resource of everyone -- and I'd
> > like
> > >> to make sure that the time *you* have for the project is spent in a
> way
> > >> that is likely to yield results, not trying to achieve various ASF
> goals
> > >> that may not achievable. (If this is not obvious now, I trust that
> over
> > >> time direct feedback and tough conversations will be appreciated,
> > instead
> > >> of letting you waste time for something unrealistic -- which is what
> > most
> > >> people in my shoes would do.)
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> > jbono...@apache.org
> > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> > Talend - http://www.talend.com
> >
>
